please stop bashing France

"Cub Driver" a écrit dans le message de
...

Aren't freedom of speech and democracy the very concepts your country was
built upon?

Many Americans don't understand the concept of free speech, so I'm not
surprised that the concept should elude a Frenchman.

Freedom of speech is not a concept known and practiced only by Americans.
Don't be so self-centered.

The U.S. Constitution imposes upon me the duty to give another man the
freedom to speak his mind. It does not, however, impose upon me a
duty to listen.

Last time I checked, the US constitution had not been adopted yet as the new
UN chart, not even as the new Usenet one. Anyway, I get your point and
you're right, but the other poster seemed to raise conditions to that
freedom to speak, a sort of "you want to talk? Then you have to got a GDP or
a gun at least as big as mine"... Have we learn nothing from the previous
century?

As for democracy--ayuh! That's what Americans for more than a hundred
years have bled for, bringing democracy to Cuba, France, Iraq, and
other unfortunate places. But loving democracy does not oblige us to
treat M. Chirac with respect. Quite the contrary, in fact. The
American brand of democracy has always had a strong vein of
irreverance built into it.

Irreverance and objective criticism are fine. You can say whatever you want
about Chirac's policy or even the man himself, I don't care. He's a public
man, a politician, and therefore is exposed to that kind of treatment as it
goes with the job. What I can't stand is the concept of bashing an entire
country and its population with specious and tasteless arguments just
because you don't agree (or not even understand) its position.


ArVa

"BUFDRVR" a écrit dans le message de
...
True,but,really,nobody said that,nobody asked poland or any other to dtop
support us,
that's not the point.The way it has been done,and announced is the point.

Wrong. Chirac made a statement at an EU meeting in February that "certain
nations" (paraphrase) needed to "keep their mouths shut" (paraphrase) if
they
wanted to be granted admission to the EU. This was clearly directed at
many
Eastern European nations who were openly supporting the US.


Chirac's statement was a rather poor one but there was no "if they wanted to
be granted admission to the EU" part. France alone does not have the power
to forbid countries to enter the Union and the idea probably not even
seriously crossed Chirac's mind.

ArVa

"Chad Irby" a écrit dans le message de
m...
Are you seriously denying that there was a French bashing campaign in
the US?

Yes. There was not, by any stretch, a campaign to bash the French for
their pathetic actions of this year.

Call me paranoid, but despite your denials I'm not so sure the French
bashing was not somewhat fueled by convenient "official source" leaks
(remember the helicopter parts, the passports, the missiles?) and high rank
official statements. Anyway, be it organized or not, it's more the extent of
the phenomenon that gives the impression of a campaign.

The French got bashed, for sure, but it was not anything like a
"campaign," and not that common, compared to the official French line of
portraying the US as an evil empire in the making.

There is not (and never was), by any stretch, an official French line of
portraying the US as an evil empire. Seriously. I don't intend to play the
French gvt's advocate but you can take any declaration you'd like, you won't
find any offensive statement. On the other hand, who talked about
punishment? Which country representatives, at national, state or local
levels, isssued statements and decrees to harm the other's interests (and
I'm not only refering to the stupid "Freedom fries" incident)?

It's true a part of the French press (and therefore of the public opinion)
is usually very critic of the American policy, be it foreign, concerning
environmental issues or other fields (just like is a part of the US press
itself), but you won't find American *bashing* in it.

ArVa

"Frank Vaughan" a écrit dans le message de
...


Yes, and the decision by the mayor of Paris to name a convicted
American cop killer as an honorary citizen was what???? Just one
more magnanimous effort at humanitarianism?

Who is that cop killer?


**** the French.


We have a pretty good record at doing it without external help, but thanks
anyway...

ArVa

"BUFDRVR" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
True,but,really,nobody said that,nobody asked poland or any other to dtop
support us,
that's not the point.The way it has been done,and announced is the point.

Wrong. Chirac made a statement at an EU meeting in February that "certain
nations" (paraphrase) needed to "keep their mouths shut" (paraphrase) if
they
wanted to be granted admission to the EU. This was clearly directed at
many
Eastern European nations who were openly supporting the US.

No.This only means what he said,"they have missed a good occasion to keep
their mouths shut",
before asking other partners of the eu what they think.
Following is totally wrong,nobody,chirac included,ever talked about
influencing their admission to the EU considering that affair,nor
that to stop support US.
The problem is that when you're about to join a group,the first thing
to make is not to do anything outside this group without
first talk to the members of the group,at least,like they did.
That,and only that.




BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it
harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

ok,you got it!
good guy...
nice,now.
A good sleep,no?

"Chad Irby" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
In article ,
"Mike" wrote:

This Chad Irby is totally brainwashed...

...said the French guy who apparently doesn't read his own national
papers...

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"Tank Fixer" a écrit dans le message de
news: ...
In article , says...

If ou want info or example on the French cultural scene, I'd be glad to
help.


France has no culture,

ahahahahahahaahhaahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahah ahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sure we don't have!!
waouhhh!
are you serious?





--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

Then stay there,and please stop talking about things you don't know
anything.



"Chad Irby" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
In article ,
(BUFDRVR) wrote:

When I hear a whiney kid point at an old house (say 40 years+)
and go "Gee Ma, is that a castle?" it's hard not to be rude.

You're kidding right? You want to swap stupid tourist stories? Every
nation
has
them. I was walking down the main street in Hoboken NJ listening to a
German
(or Belgian or Dutch or Danish, couldn't really tell), ask his American
buddy
if Hoboken was part of New York City. Unlike you, his friend replied
politely
(pointing east across the Hudson); "that's NYC, we're still in New
Jersey". I
got a chuckle out of it, but would not have been so French as to laugh
out
loud.

You think you have it bad?

I live in Orlando.

Tourist capital of the friggin' *planet*.

Any bad story or comment you hear about Americans is a drop in the
bucket compared to everyday life in The City Beautiful...

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"ian maclure" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
In article , "IO"
wrote:

Chad Irby wrote:
In article ,
"IO" wrote:

I'm italian and in my opinion the "french bashing" is a stupid and
racist thing.

It's not a race issue.

We make the same comments about any idiots who act like that.

If you want to criticize Chirac ok... But please don't say that all the
french are monkeys or make stupid and false comments on French

Thats "cheese eating surrender monkeys" to be precise.

cowardy... Remember Die Bien Phu

They lost.
Like you did......
.......and like you will in Irak


or french resistance against nazis...

They folded then spent the rest of the war ratting each other
out to the Gestapo.
Waouh,a historian!....

Your (american) behaviour is very offensive to me and to europeans....
And also Russia, Germany, Mexico, Canada, Chile ecc was against usa on
Iraq resolution remeber this...

Oooooh, those damnable Canuckleheads, they are going to pay through
the nose for that......

IBM


__________________________________________________ __________________________
___
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 -
http://www.uncensored-news.com
The Worlds Uncensored News Source

ArVa wrote in message
...


When one's acts have repercussions on the whole world, everyone has a
say.
Aren't freedom of speech and democracy the very concepts your country
was
built upon?


Does the 20th century in Europe really match your idea of a garden
party?
Yes, we have experienced wars and yes, we have experienced and still
experience terrorism; just like you...

Nobody denies that the wolf has to be taken out but the problem is
that the
beast is not at the door but hides deep in the forest. One can go
after it
swiftly, with dogs and horns, but then the wolf might escape (sounds
familiar?), or one can go stealthy, ambush, and shoot it while it's
drinking
at the pond.

ArVa


The last I looked, American policy is decided by American leaders. You
can tell the other UN misfits that they can vote for the sun to stand
still or the Summer weather to stay moderate for all the good it does
them.

When the French and other weasel nations of Europe demonstrate they can
assume the responsibilities of modern nations perhaps I will expect
responsible action from them. Don't hold your breath. Kosovo proves
that nothing larger than a soccer riot should be trusted to them.

--

Scott
--------
"Interestingly, we started to lose this war only after the embedded
reporters pulled out. Back when we got the news directly from Iraq,
there was victory and optimism. Now that the news is filtered through
the mainstream media here in America, all we hear is death and
destruction and quagmire..." Ann Coulter
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/091703.htm