gaggling with migratory birds

so if i join a blob of gaggling pelicans and they leave thanks to my sloppy flying, is it considered harassment if i follow them into the next thermal? What about circling with bald eagles?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...8rT_story.html

On 5/7/2012 11:51 AM, Tony wrote:
so if i join a blob of gaggling pelicans and they leave thanks to my sloppy flying, is it considered harassment if i follow them into the next thermal? What about circling with bald eagles?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...8rT_story.html

Tony,

I may be THE Original Citizen to have been threatened (in writing) by 'The
Bird Police.'

This was back ca. 1990 when I was (twice, via registered letters) informed by
some clueless, chair-bound USFWS bureaucrat that I likely had 'disturbed'
various raptors (endangered and otherwise), and any repetition WOULD result in
jail time up to 10 years and fines up to $100,000 per occurrence, and
confiscation of property (i.e. the sailplane). I wrote the jerk a polite,
civil, informative (at least *I* thought it was, ha ha) letter poking holes in
his various arguments (starting with it all being no better than 2nd-hand
information), which is why I got the 2nd (entirely unrepentant, further
threatening) letter.

Being SSB's newsletter editor then, I also put all 3 communications into the
newsletter without editorial comment. Sadly, pre-internet...

Furtherly sad to say, 'the Bird Police' have not gone away or even lessened
their zeal. (What a surprise...NOT!!!) Thank 'the drug war' for this sort of
expanding abuse of the citizenry and unconstitutional aggression (I was
threatened with 'the fact of confiscation' PRIOR to being charged with
anything) on the part of government.

I wish I'd kept the letters, because today people are skeptical, but about 10
years ago I mailed them to a non-pilot, younger brother...because he didn't
believe me!

Bob - apparently convicted but not yet charged felon - W.

I had no idea you were such a miscreant Bob! Obviously I need to do a better job screening my chase crew in the future.

Speaking of bird police I'd like to eradicate the flocks of geese in our neighborhood by the river. They make a mess everywhere and it is claimed they are protected as a migratory species. But guess what? They don't migrate!

Another strategy I've considered proposing is that instead of killing the geese we kill the people who feed the geese. There is a reason I'm not in charge

On Monday, May 7, 2012 2:26:20 PM UTC-5, BobW wrote:
On 5/7/2012 11:51 AM, Tony wrote:
so if i join a blob of gaggling pelicans and they leave thanks to my sloppy flying, is it considered harassment if i follow them into the next thermal? What about circling with bald eagles?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...8rT_story.html

Tony,

I may be THE Original Citizen to have been threatened (in writing) by 'The
Bird Police.'

This was back ca. 1990 when I was (twice, via registered letters) informed by
some clueless, chair-bound USFWS bureaucrat that I likely had 'disturbed'
various raptors (endangered and otherwise), and any repetition WOULD result in
jail time up to 10 years and fines up to $100,000 per occurrence, and
confiscation of property (i.e. the sailplane). I wrote the jerk a polite,
civil, informative (at least *I* thought it was, ha ha) letter poking holes in
his various arguments (starting with it all being no better than 2nd-hand
information), which is why I got the 2nd (entirely unrepentant, further
threatening) letter.

Being SSB's newsletter editor then, I also put all 3 communications into the
newsletter without editorial comment. Sadly, pre-internet...

Furtherly sad to say, 'the Bird Police' have not gone away or even lessened
their zeal. (What a surprise...NOT!!!) Thank 'the drug war' for this sort of
expanding abuse of the citizenry and unconstitutional aggression (I was
threatened with 'the fact of confiscation' PRIOR to being charged with
anything) on the part of government.

I wish I'd kept the letters, because today people are skeptical, but about 10
years ago I mailed them to a non-pilot, younger brother...because he didn't
believe me!

Bob - apparently convicted but not yet charged felon - W.

If they are like most other non migrating geese, a sock with batteries is a
lot quieter than a 10 gauge

Pete

"Tony" wrote in message
news:27320343.2063.1336419510676.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynbs30...
I had no idea you were such a miscreant Bob! Obviously I need to do a
better job screening my chase crew in the future.

Speaking of bird police I'd like to eradicate the flocks of geese in our
neighborhood by the river. They make a mess everywhere and it is claimed
they are protected as a migratory species. But guess what? They don't
migrate!

Another strategy I've considered proposing is that instead of killing the
geese we kill the people who feed the geese. There is a reason I'm not in
charge

On Monday, May 7, 2012 2:26:20 PM UTC-5, BobW wrote:
On 5/7/2012 11:51 AM, Tony wrote:
so if i join a blob of gaggling pelicans and they leave thanks to my
sloppy flying, is it considered harassment if i follow them into the
next thermal? What about circling with bald eagles?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...8rT_story.html

Tony,

I may be THE Original Citizen to have been threatened (in writing) by
'The
Bird Police.'

This was back ca. 1990 when I was (twice, via registered letters)
informed by
some clueless, chair-bound USFWS bureaucrat that I likely had 'disturbed'
various raptors (endangered and otherwise), and any repetition WOULD
result in
jail time up to 10 years and fines up to $100,000 per occurrence, and
confiscation of property (i.e. the sailplane). I wrote the jerk a polite,
civil, informative (at least *I* thought it was, ha ha) letter poking
holes in
his various arguments (starting with it all being no better than 2nd-hand
information), which is why I got the 2nd (entirely unrepentant, further
threatening) letter.

Being SSB's newsletter editor then, I also put all 3 communications into
the
newsletter without editorial comment. Sadly, pre-internet...

Furtherly sad to say, 'the Bird Police' have not gone away or even
lessened
their zeal. (What a surprise...NOT!!!) Thank 'the drug war' for this sort
of
expanding abuse of the citizenry and unconstitutional aggression (I was
threatened with 'the fact of confiscation' PRIOR to being charged with
anything) on the part of government.

I wish I'd kept the letters, because today people are skeptical, but
about 10
years ago I mailed them to a non-pilot, younger brother...because he
didn't
believe me!

Bob - apparently convicted but not yet charged felon - W.

Like many soaring pilots, I have shared dozens of thermals with raptors. Mostly, they seem happy for me to show them where the lift is.

Years ago, on another continent, I came across a huge flock of cranes flying between thermals at around 12,000 feet. As slow as I could fly, I still caught up with them. When I was about twenty feet behind them, they peeled away, let me through the gap and then re-formed behind me.

I think it's pretty hard for a sailplane to harass birds. Flying single-engine planes ten feet over a lake full of migratory birds is another matter entirely and well worth some ass-kicking.

Mike

On Monday, May 7, 2012 1:51:39 PM UTC-4, Tony wrote:
so if i join a blob of gaggling pelicans and they leave thanks to my sloppy flying, is it considered harassment if i follow them into the next thermal? What about circling with bald eagles?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...8rT_story.html

Hmm, maybe we are looking at this the wrong way. Maybe we can leverage the alleged decline in SSA membership and lobby for 'endangered species' status for glider pilots ;-).

Frank (TA)

On Tuesday, May 8, 2012 2:28:54 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, May 7, 2012 1:51:39 PM UTC-4, Tony wrote:
so if i join a blob of gaggling pelicans and they leave thanks to my sloppy flying, is it considered harassment if i follow them into the next thermal? What about circling with bald eagles?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...8rT_story.html

Hmm, maybe we are looking at this the wrong way. Maybe we can leverage the alleged decline in SSA membership and lobby for 'endangered species' status for glider pilots ;-).

Frank (TA)

that would give me a legal justification for denying all summertime non-soaring event invitations. I wouldn't complain.

In the 1980's, I was charged with "molesting geese in a federal
wildlife preserve" by a University Rent-A-Cop while riding my bike
across a snow-covered soccer field on the campus of Colorado State
University. The flock of hundreds of geese parted, I rode through,
they moved back to their original location. No flapping of wings, no
flight took place. A federal felony.

Luckily the judge determined that I had been charged with the
incorrect law code # and threw the case out. To say he was ****ed at
the waste of his time is an understatement.

Never underestimate the stupidity of humans in positions of power.

At 20:14 08 May 2012, wrote:
In the 1980's, I was charged with "molesting geese in a federal
wildlife preserve" by a University Rent-A-Cop while riding my bike
across a snow-covered soccer field on the campus of Colorado State
University. The flock of hundreds of geese parted, I rode through,
they moved back to their original location. No flapping of wings, no
flight took place. A federal felony.

Luckily the judge determined that I had been charged with the
incorrect law code # and threw the case out. To say he was ****ed at
the waste of his time is an understatement.

Never underestimate the stupidity of humans in positions of power.

I would have thought that the only time you could "harrass" birds is when
they are nesting. We do not have a species in the UK which nests in flight
so we don't have a rule about that. We do observe restrictions around
breeding sites but as these are at the coast and on the ground we do not
have a great deal of reason to go there. Having said that one club in
Scotland borders borders on a large Protected site where thousands of geese
winter every year. They co-exist quite happily.
I have had the pleasure of soaring with buzzards, Marsh harriers, Peregrine
Falcon, and on one accasion a Golden Eagle, they did not seem to mind at
all that I could not soar as well as they could

And cats are major culprits, too, far more birds killed (though with
different demographics) than wind turbines.

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

only tweety birds though, and they aren't protected as migratory species. plus there is no proof that it was the cat because the tweety bird only tawt he saw a puddy cat, he wasn't sure.