Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 7:56:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:

Not sure what it shows. I think let the NTSB sort it out.

last view of the glider and tow plane are at 0:51 on the video.

It appears that the glider is way too high, but this could just be the point of view of the dashcam.

You can see the ground run beginning at 0:31. Can't tell if the canopy is open. The NTSB may be able to synchronise with the glider recorder, but a 4 second interval won't add much information. In some cases Oudies record at 1 second intervals.

This is very sad. My condolences to everyone who knew and loved the tow pilot… and to the sailplane pilot and his family and friends as well.

In watching the dashcam video, I realize that there is a second aspect to these accidents that I hadn’t previously recognized. All the energy to accelerate the glider along its longer flight path (crack the whip style) and the potential energy it gained with increasing altitude, came from the tow plane’s kinetic energy. It is not just a matter of overpowering the tow pilot’s pitch authority; we’ve also robbed him of flying speed.

Further note, it takes less than 2 seconds for the transition from a standard tow position to what is surely an unrecoverable situation for the tow plane.

Mike Koerner

On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 11:32:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
This is very sad. My condolences to everyone who knew and loved the tow pilot… and to the sailplane pilot and his family and friends as well..

In watching the dashcam video, I realize that there is a second aspect to these accidents that I hadn’t previously recognized. All the energy to accelerate the glider along its longer flight path (crack the whip style) and the potential energy it gained with increasing altitude, came from the tow plane’s kinetic energy. It is not just a matter of overpowering the tow pilot’s pitch authority; we’ve also robbed him of flying speed.

Further note, it takes less than 2 seconds for the transition from a standard tow position to what is surely an unrecoverable situation for the tow plane.

Mike Koerner

Correct! You just described the dynamics of the early stage of a winch launch! The Russians experimented with this sort of thing decades ago by paying out a long line from the tow plane during the tow and then initiating a dive while the glider went into a winch-like attitude. They basically sling-shot the glider to very high altitudes that way.

Anyone interested to discuss and work on a conceptual technical solution beyond Schweizer vs. Tost hook outside of this group, please contact me at moc.oohay@nnamuenilu

Uli
'AS'

On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 7:57:01 AM UTC-7, Paul Agnew wrote:
Very sad to read this tragic news this morning.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2020/0...fatal.html?m=1

Comments (anonymous) on the webpage indicate kiting may have been a significant factor.

Sincere condolences to the family of the tow pilot and to the members of the club.

Paul Agnew
Jupiter, FL

I have seen a number of these posts over the years, each one is a gut punch.. I am not inexperienced,
but for the life of me I cannot understand how these happen. When I was trained it was really entrenched to release as soon as sight of tow as lost. This included if I took my eyes off the tow plane for a second, I earned a release with the instructor telling me "Why didn't you release, you had lost sight"? Once even falling for a "hey, look at that bird at 3 o'clock, I looked, I got a release. Are these kites so fast that a glider pilot doesn't have time to react, or are these 100% preventable? I don't do anything on tow, but fly tow. I don't mess with phone, set instruments or retract gear.

On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 1:54:36 AM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 7:57:01 AM UTC-7, Paul Agnew wrote:
Very sad to read this tragic news this morning.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2020/0...atal..html?m=1

Comments (anonymous) on the webpage indicate kiting may have been a significant factor.

Sincere condolences to the family of the tow pilot and to the members of the club.

Paul Agnew
Jupiter, FL

I have seen a number of these posts over the years, each one is a gut punch. I am not inexperienced,
but for the life of me I cannot understand how these happen. When I was trained it was really entrenched to release as soon as sight of tow as lost.. This included if I took my eyes off the tow plane for a second, I earned a release with the instructor telling me "Why didn't you release, you had lost sight"? Once even falling for a "hey, look at that bird at 3 o'clock, I looked, I got a release. Are these kites so fast that a glider pilot doesn't have time to react, or are these 100% preventable? I don't do anything on tow, but fly tow. I don't mess with phone, set instruments or retract gear.

From the standpoint of the tow pilot they can and do happen too fast to react. I've experienced the slow, annoying, what the hell is the glider pilot doing type of kite and the sudden, split second, I'm nose down and turned to the left type. Even if I had my hand on the release (which was quite inappropriately installed down on the floor, difficult to reach) I would not have had time to react before I was nose down. I've experience two of the sudden type kite, one at 2K feet and again one at about 300-350 feet. I've had more than one pilot give me push back when I would later approach them about their lack of control on take off. There is NO excuse for doing anything but keeping your eyes on the tow plane and maintaining position. The tow pilot at Byron didn't stand a chance of recovery due to the low level of the incident. In my one low level kiting experience had I been 50 feet lower I would not have had time or room to recover.

I remember my first glider flight. My CFIG clearly said "if we lose sight of the tow plane, we release!!. His admonitions were clear and concise. "No matter what happens, FLY THE GLIDER FIRST!!!" These instructions were stated on every flight as they should be by every CFIG on every flight. Even at that one cannot count on the student or even the certified glider pilot doing things properly all the time. I have learned in life that there is a difference between telling someone what to do and "teaching" them what to do. Human error is ubiquitous.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow PIlot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 7:24:42 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 1:54:36 AM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 7:57:01 AM UTC-7, Paul Agnew wrote:
Very sad to read this tragic news this morning.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2020/0...fatal.html?m=1

Comments (anonymous) on the webpage indicate kiting may have been a significant factor.

Sincere condolences to the family of the tow pilot and to the members of the club.

Paul Agnew
Jupiter, FL

I have seen a number of these posts over the years, each one is a gut punch. I am not inexperienced,
but for the life of me I cannot understand how these happen. When I was trained it was really entrenched to release as soon as sight of tow as lost. This included if I took my eyes off the tow plane for a second, I earned a release with the instructor telling me "Why didn't you release, you had lost sight"? Once even falling for a "hey, look at that bird at 3 o'clock, I looked, I got a release. Are these kites so fast that a glider pilot doesn't have time to react, or are these 100% preventable? I don't do anything on tow, but fly tow. I don't mess with phone, set instruments or retract gear.

From the standpoint of the tow pilot they can and do happen too fast to react. I've experienced the slow, annoying, what the hell is the glider pilot doing type of kite and the sudden, split second, I'm nose down and turned to the left type. Even if I had my hand on the release (which was quite inappropriately installed down on the floor, difficult to reach) I would not have had time to react before I was nose down. I've experience two of the sudden type kite, one at 2K feet and again one at about 300-350 feet. I've had more than one pilot give me push back when I would later approach them about their lack of control on take off. There is NO excuse for doing anything but keeping your eyes on the tow plane and maintaining position. The tow pilot at Byron didn't stand a chance of recovery due to the low level of the incident. In my one low level kiting experience had I been 50 feet lower I would not have had time or room to recover.

I remember my first glider flight. My CFIG clearly said "if we lose sight of the tow plane, we release!!. His admonitions were clear and concise. "No matter what happens, FLY THE GLIDER FIRST!!!" These instructions were stated on every flight as they should be by every CFIG on every flight. Even at that one cannot count on the student or even the certified glider pilot doing things properly all the time. I have learned in life that there is a difference between telling someone what to do and "teaching" them what to do. Human error is ubiquitous.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow PIlot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

Walt, it would surprise most as to how many times this happens and things do not turn tragic, point being is that it happens way too often. Recently I was pulling a student pilot in a 1-26 and he did the exact thing to me.I was flying The Gorilla and you can only imagine where my left hand was as I was yelling at him on the radio. You know that we as tow pilots sometimes go beyond in allowing glider pilots to get further out of position than we should. MY motto is, I'll Dump You Bro!!!
Each time this has happened at our club the glider pilot always has some excuse to justify his lack of reacting to the situation. As mentioned earlier, there is no excuse in NOT reaching for the safety of all involved.
Towing is a hazardous duty, there needs to be more emphasis placed on staying in the slot from the first lesson to the last. this will not be the last time this type of accident occurs, lets face the facts, gliding is hazardous, and tow pilots have been not vocal enough during the training process, not anymore, things are changing.

One of the more surprising things I have learned as a CFIG over last four seasons is how ****ty glider pilots are as a group in terms of cockpit discipline on take off and departure. They mess with switches, knobs, windows, cameras, water bottles, you name it. I threw a fit about this and said "I'm going to insist on sterile cockpits below 1000'".

I got push back on that from an /instructor/.

Let's talk about open canopies.

Here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0I75OZmA-0

As far as I can see, he did one thing, and only one thing correct: keep the tow together until he had an easy approach to a safe landing. Everything else about the decision making on that flight is just wrong. What was he going to do if he got badly out of position, pull the release with his teeth?

Here's another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNJCGxQ_4zo

(wtf does the instructor have a hand held camera?)

That one is just pure luck. Most times, a canopy that opens on tow will be damaged and will not reclose properly.

C'mon, instructors, let's step up.

Flight reviews are a perfect opportunity for refreshing emergency procedures.

Evan Ludeman

On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 8:00:36 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 7:24:42 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 1:54:36 AM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 7:57:01 AM UTC-7, Paul Agnew wrote:
Very sad to read this tragic news this morning.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2020/0...fatal.html?m=1

Comments (anonymous) on the webpage indicate kiting may have been a significant factor.

Sincere condolences to the family of the tow pilot and to the members of the club.

Paul Agnew
Jupiter, FL

I have seen a number of these posts over the years, each one is a gut punch. I am not inexperienced,
but for the life of me I cannot understand how these happen. When I was trained it was really entrenched to release as soon as sight of tow as lost. This included if I took my eyes off the tow plane for a second, I earned a release with the instructor telling me "Why didn't you release, you had lost sight"? Once even falling for a "hey, look at that bird at 3 o'clock, I looked, I got a release. Are these kites so fast that a glider pilot doesn't have time to react, or are these 100% preventable? I don't do anything on tow, but fly tow. I don't mess with phone, set instruments or retract gear.

From the standpoint of the tow pilot they can and do happen too fast to react. I've experienced the slow, annoying, what the hell is the glider pilot doing type of kite and the sudden, split second, I'm nose down and turned to the left type. Even if I had my hand on the release (which was quite inappropriately installed down on the floor, difficult to reach) I would not have had time to react before I was nose down. I've experience two of the sudden type kite, one at 2K feet and again one at about 300-350 feet. I've had more than one pilot give me push back when I would later approach them about their lack of control on take off. There is NO excuse for doing anything but keeping your eyes on the tow plane and maintaining position. The tow pilot at Byron didn't stand a chance of recovery due to the low level of the incident. In my one low level kiting experience had I been 50 feet lower I would not have had time or room to recover.

I remember my first glider flight. My CFIG clearly said "if we lose sight of the tow plane, we release!!. His admonitions were clear and concise.. "No matter what happens, FLY THE GLIDER FIRST!!!" These instructions were stated on every flight as they should be by every CFIG on every flight. Even at that one cannot count on the student or even the certified glider pilot doing things properly all the time. I have learned in life that there is a difference between telling someone what to do and "teaching" them what to do. Human error is ubiquitous.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow PIlot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

Walt, it would surprise most as to how many times this happens and things do not turn tragic, point being is that it happens way too often. Recently I was pulling a student pilot in a 1-26 and he did the exact thing to me.I was flying The Gorilla and you can only imagine where my left hand was as I was yelling at him on the radio. You know that we as tow pilots sometimes go beyond in allowing glider pilots to get further out of position than we should. MY motto is, I'll Dump You Bro!!!
Each time this has happened at our club the glider pilot always has some excuse to justify his lack of reacting to the situation. As mentioned earlier, there is no excuse in NOT reaching for the safety of all involved.
Towing is a hazardous duty, there needs to be more emphasis placed on staying in the slot from the first lesson to the last. this will not be the last time this type of accident occurs, lets face the facts, gliding is hazardous, and tow pilots have been not vocal enough during the training process, not anymore, things are changing.

Correct, we are not vocal enough in the training process. The student who almost killed me had NO business being sent on solo. I towed her on 6 or more duals that morning and as per usual she was in and out of the mirror, could not hold steady position and yet her instructor sent her solo. I should have said NO, not gonna tow her but I didn't, that failure almost got me killed. Fact is that even if the gentleman in California who died was flying the Gorilla with what I consider should be the gold standard of handle and tow hook he may well not have survived. I understand he managed to cut the rope but still impacted the ground. Below a certain altitude you are most likely to crash and if not be dead be seriously injured.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now happy Helicopter Pilot

On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 11:27:40 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 8:00:36 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 7:24:42 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 1:54:36 AM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 7:57:01 AM UTC-7, Paul Agnew wrote:
Very sad to read this tragic news this morning.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2020/0...fatal.html?m=1

Comments (anonymous) on the webpage indicate kiting may have been a significant factor.

Sincere condolences to the family of the tow pilot and to the members of the club.

Paul Agnew
Jupiter, FL

I have seen a number of these posts over the years, each one is a gut punch. I am not inexperienced,
but for the life of me I cannot understand how these happen. When I was trained it was really entrenched to release as soon as sight of tow as lost. This included if I took my eyes off the tow plane for a second, I earned a release with the instructor telling me "Why didn't you release, you had lost sight"? Once even falling for a "hey, look at that bird at 3 o'clock, I looked, I got a release. Are these kites so fast that a glider pilot doesn't have time to react, or are these 100% preventable? I don't do anything on tow, but fly tow. I don't mess with phone, set instruments or retract gear.

From the standpoint of the tow pilot they can and do happen too fast to react. I've experienced the slow, annoying, what the hell is the glider pilot doing type of kite and the sudden, split second, I'm nose down and turned to the left type. Even if I had my hand on the release (which was quite inappropriately installed down on the floor, difficult to reach) I would not have had time to react before I was nose down. I've experience two of the sudden type kite, one at 2K feet and again one at about 300-350 feet. I've had more than one pilot give me push back when I would later approach them about their lack of control on take off. There is NO excuse for doing anything but keeping your eyes on the tow plane and maintaining position.. The tow pilot at Byron didn't stand a chance of recovery due to the low level of the incident. In my one low level kiting experience had I been 50 feet lower I would not have had time or room to recover.

I remember my first glider flight. My CFIG clearly said "if we lose sight of the tow plane, we release!!. His admonitions were clear and concise. "No matter what happens, FLY THE GLIDER FIRST!!!" These instructions were stated on every flight as they should be by every CFIG on every flight.. Even at that one cannot count on the student or even the certified glider pilot doing things properly all the time. I have learned in life that there is a difference between telling someone what to do and "teaching" them what to do. Human error is ubiquitous.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow PIlot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

Walt, it would surprise most as to how many times this happens and things do not turn tragic, point being is that it happens way too often. Recently I was pulling a student pilot in a 1-26 and he did the exact thing to me..I was flying The Gorilla and you can only imagine where my left hand was as I was yelling at him on the radio. You know that we as tow pilots sometimes go beyond in allowing glider pilots to get further out of position than we should. MY motto is, I'll Dump You Bro!!!
Each time this has happened at our club the glider pilot always has some excuse to justify his lack of reacting to the situation. As mentioned earlier, there is no excuse in NOT reaching for the safety of all involved.
Towing is a hazardous duty, there needs to be more emphasis placed on staying in the slot from the first lesson to the last. this will not be the last time this type of accident occurs, lets face the facts, gliding is hazardous, and tow pilots have been not vocal enough during the training process, not anymore, things are changing.

Correct, we are not vocal enough in the training process. The student who almost killed me had NO business being sent on solo. I towed her on 6 or more duals that morning and as per usual she was in and out of the mirror, could not hold steady position and yet her instructor sent her solo. I should have said NO, not gonna tow her but I didn't, that failure almost got me killed. Fact is that even if the gentleman in California who died was flying the Gorilla with what I consider should be the gold standard of handle and tow hook he may well not have survived. I understand he managed to cut the rope but still impacted the ground. Below a certain altitude you are most likely to crash and if not be dead be seriously injured.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now happy Helicopter Pilot

I agree Walt, after looking at those enlarged frames I must conclude that the poor tow pilot waited too long to pull the trigger on release. Things happen so quickly that I doubt that the outcome could have been any different.. As tow pilots we all probably extend every possible opportunity to the glider pilot to make recovery, in many cases way too long.
The situation with the 1-26 student pilot was with an individual that took 250 plus flights to solo, the guy should be fishing instead of flying gliders.
A look in the mirror tells wonders when you are towing, we have that ability to evaluate from the front of the rope instead of from behind. This gives us the opportunity to see things that the instructor doesn't. As you well know we as tow pilots can and do make corrections that nullify the mistakes of the glider pilot.
When we have check rides for students I make it a point to inform the DPE of the experiences that I have had as the applicants tow pilot and point out any potential areas of concern that the DPE could assist with to help the applicant. The same goes for their primary instructor, I communicate my concerns! Us as tow pilots need to do more of this, being involved in that process of communicating with the student and the instructor is vital. Most of our instructors do not fly both ends of the rope, therefor we have a huge advantage in evaluating the tow. I'll DUMP YOU BRO!!