I passed the checkride, now need a good GPS and passenger headset

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
Dudley,

Don't forget, Dud, that 50% of all CFIs are below average. ((:-))

I'm sorry you have such a low opinion of flight instructors.


Uhm, Vince is alluding to the surprise of President Roosevelt (I think)
about the fact that 50 percent of the US population had (and have) a
below-average intelligence. This, as Vince's statement, is inherent in
the definition of "average" - well, not exactly, I know, but kind of,
assuming an equal distribution around the average.

Mr. Norris' (all inclusive) statement about new pilots and how they "WILL"
interface with a GPS is in my opinion incorrect. If this statement WAS
correct, it would directly address the training issue as I have stated.
There will certainly be individual new pilots who could become dependent on
a single navigational tool as indicated by Mr. Norris. This again directly
addresses the training issue, as these pilots will have been improperly
trained.
In my opinion, the individual pilots who could become GPS dependent as the
result of improper training are far below the statistic level needed to
meet the generalized statement made by Mr. Norris......Mr. Norris and Mr.
Roosevelt notwithstanding that is :-)))))))) .
Dudley Henriques

..... is like turning on an electric light needs some dual on
the asics of what constitutes proper flight instruction .

I have a pretty good idea of what constitutes proper flight
instruction, Dud; mine was courtesy of the United States Navy. I
understand it's generally considered a fairly rigorous program.

I have no problem with Navair, and the training you have received or not
received is not at issue here.

You made it an issue, Dud. Read what you said, quoted above. You said
I don't know "what constitutes proper flight instruction"--although I
experienced what is probably the best flight instruction available to
any American.

What I'm addressing is your statement that asserts something as fact..

No, Dud, it's a statement of my opinion. To be more precise, the
expression that something is "like turning on an electric light" is a
simile. Similes are never "facts."

.....and I take exception to that.

And that's your opinion, and of course you're entitled to it.

It's simply not true enough to be presented as a glittering generalization..

Dud, you don't know what a "glittering generalization is."

I My contention is that any properly trained pilot will use a GPS simply as one more available tool to be used in
conjuction with other navigational skills, pilotage being one of these
skills.

You made that point, or came close to it, in your previous post. No
need to repeat it.

You're begging the question, saying a properly trained pilot has been
properly trained. Duh!

Quite to the contrary.... I'm begging nothing...

Dud, you don't know what "begging the question" means, either.

it is YOUR statement that a new pilot who has a GPS
in his/her navigational equation will become dependent on that GPS to the
point of not developing normal navigational skills that begs the question;
"has this pilot been properly trained?"

Dud, "begging the question" does NOT mean what you think it means. It
is the name of a logical fallacy in which one's conclusion is
contained in his premise. Such as saying "A properly trained pilot
has been properly trained"--which is what you said above, even though
you changed the wording a little.

The fact is that NO properly trained pilot will NEED a GPS.

Dud, for crying out loud, DON'T YOU REALIZE YOU ARE AGREEING WITH
WHAT I SAID IN MY RESPONSE TO THE ORIGINAL POST?

Did you read the thread before barging in? Go back and read the
original post, and read my response to it.

I would offer one more comment on your posting: You may "properly
train" a student but you have no idea what he's going to go out and do
when you're not there. Why do so many pilots kill themselves doing
stupid things?

vince norris

Don't forget, Dud, that 50% of all CFIs are below average. ((:-))

I'm sorry you have such a low opinion of flight instructors.

Uhm, Vince is alluding to the surprise of President Roosevelt (I think)
about the fact that 50 percent of the US population had (and have) a
below-average intelligence.

Right. I don't know about FDR, but the statement that "50% of all
_______ are below average" is a favorite of math and statistics
teachers.

This, as Vince's statement, is inherent in the definition of "average" -
well, not exactly, I know, but kind of, assuming an equal distribution around the average.

Most statistics books I've seen say the median and the mode are, like
the arithmetic mean, "averages." But you got the right idea; half of
all cfi's are below the arithmetic mean only if the population is
normally distributed. Quite unlikely.

vince norris

John,

are you implying that the "dumb" ones immigrated
from Europe to North America

No, I was just pointing out how statistics work. However, you may be
right ;-)

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Dudley,

Mr. Norris' (all inclusive) statement about new pilots and how they "WILL"
interface with a GPS is in my opinion incorrect.


I fully agree.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Vincent,

But you got the right idea; half of
all cfi's are below the arithmetic mean only if the population is
normally distributed.


And a few extremely smart pilots can make up for a ton of a "just a
little dumb" ones.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Thomas Borchert writes:
Vincent,

But you got the right idea; half of
all cfi's are below the arithmetic mean only if the population is
normally distributed.


And a few extremely smart pilots can make up for a ton of a "just a
little dumb" ones.

"Make up for" how? The extremely smart (good?) ones will
skew the data and make even more below average.

Mort,
Thank God someone else had the same problems I'm dealing with
now. I was out of flying for over 18 years (and actually have a LF Range
approach in my log book from before that), and am facing a tough
learning curve on the new GPS panels. I've discovered that the
communications procedures are all still relevant -- even with the
changes in terminology for airspace designations, and the airplanes
still fly the same in knots as they used to in miles per hour.

I'm going to end up getting dual on the Garmin stuff so I can
use it instead of just turning it off as a distraction. The old steam
gauges sure looked familiar, but that GPS with the itty-bitty screen is
a challenge.

On the topic the original poster mentioned -- "need" can be a
strong indicator of dependency but often isn't as I explain to my
grandkids. "Want" is probably what he meant to write. I can't fault him
for wanting a nice GPS and 2nd headset.


-----Original Message-----
From: Mortimer Schnerd, RN ]
Posted At: Monday, June 26, 2006 04:38
Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
Conversation: I passed the checkride, now need a good GPS and
passenger
headset
Subject: I passed the checkride, now need a good GPS and passenger
headset

....

Exuse me for cutting in but I have to utter a hearty "Bull****!".

I was out of flying for 15 years after flying every day for various
part
135
outfits. Let me tell you, today's panel looks different from what I
was
used
to. I climbed into a retrofitted C-172 for my BFR last year when I
started
flying again and found that although I had several hundred hours in
C-172s
that
I couldn't figure out the panel. I could fly the airplane just
fine...
but I
couldn't figure out how to change frequencies, etc. The primary radio
in
that
airplane happened to be a Garmin 430.

I ended up taking dual *just* on the Garmin; then buying a manual and
installing
a GPS sim on my computer. I learned how to do a few things with it
but
don't
fly enough any more to retain the lesser used functions. I probably
only
use
10% of what that GPS is capable of doing.

Don't tell me that operating the GPS doesn't require skills.

I say that while still remembering how to navigate with just a map and
the
compass and I can still fly a very decent ILS or ADF approach. Those
require
skills too... just different ones.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

The condescending repetitive "Dud's, duh's and the vitriolic CAPS...

There was only one "duh" and the caps were not vitriolic, but intended
to try to make sure you noticed what I said, since you failed to see
it in my previous post. I would have used italics, the normal way of
emphasizing words and phrases, but I don't know of they would appear
on my posting.

. I gather from your rather cogent posting you disagree somewhat
with my analysis :-)

Yeah, but you disagree with mine, so we're even. The internet would be
a dull place if we all agreed about everything.

You have a nice evening up there in College Park...

Thank you, actually University Park; College Park is the U. of
Maryland and, I think, one of the Texas schools.

and all the best to you.

And the same to you.

vince norris