Using ship fuel as aviation fuel?

If necessary, is it possible to use F-76 as aviation fuel? I've read
somewhere that the RN's Invincible class carrier can trade off her
endurance for embarked air group's endurance by using ship fuel tanks
as 'swing tanks'. Can anyone confirm this one way or the other?

Thanks in advance

"KDR" wrote in message
m...
If necessary, is it possible to use F-76 as aviation fuel? I've read
somewhere that the RN's Invincible class carrier can trade off her
endurance for embarked air group's endurance by using ship fuel tanks
as 'swing tanks'. Can anyone confirm this one way or the other?

Thanks in advance


i think they mean that they can put either type of fuel in the fuel tanks
and not that one fuel fits all

"KDR" wrote...
If necessary, is it possible to use F-76 as aviation fuel? I've read
somewhere that the RN's Invincible class carrier can trade off her
endurance for embarked air group's endurance by using ship fuel tanks
as 'swing tanks'. Can anyone confirm this one way or the other?

I believe the ship can burn the jet fuel, but the jets cannot burn the ship's
diesel/turbine fuel.

Many modern jet engines are very sensitive to fuel type because of the high
temps and close tolerances within the engines. The older J-85 could use JP4 or
5; Jet A, A1, or B; and 115 AvGas; I don't remember if it could use F-76.
However, the J-52 could not use AvGas.

In the US navy, the nuclear powered carriers only carry JP4 or JP8 (and all
on-board diesel-powered equipment use the JP), so any smaller ships that refuel
from the carrier (a relatively common practice) get the jet fuel. I've talked
with several "oil kings" in the past, and they all told me the diesels much
preferred diesel fuel over JP because of its lubricity and energy content. The
big turbines didn't much care.

Another problem would be the aircraft engines' lesser tolerance for water
contamination. The ship would have to keep the higher contamination standards
for any fuel transferred to aircraft.

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
news:7Hzfc.44106$xn4.148857@attbi_s51...

snip
I've talked
with several "oil kings" in the past, and they all told me the diesels
much
preferred diesel fuel over JP because of its lubricity and energy content.
The
big turbines didn't much care.

The high compression ratios for diesel piston engines cause detonation using
wide cut jet fuel.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message ...
"John R Weiss" wrote in message
news:7Hzfc.44106$xn4.148857@attbi_s51...

snip
I've talked
with several "oil kings" in the past, and they all told me the diesels
much
preferred diesel fuel over JP because of its lubricity and energy content.
The
big turbines didn't much care.

The high compression ratios for diesel piston engines cause detonation using
wide cut jet fuel.

Multi-fuel diesel engines can be built and frequently are for the
military vehicles such as tanks. It involves specialy adjustable
injection systems and other provisions to do with lubriticity.
Running on Jet fuel or Gaoline is not problem in the short term for
such engines.

A critical factor for the diesel engine is the "cetane number" and it
is important to have a high centane number. A high cetane number
means that the fuel will ignite easily but burn slowly.

One problem that the German Fischer Tropsh snthetic fuel plants had in
WW2 was that the fuel had far to high a cetane number and burned a
little to slowly. This lowered efficiency and increased exhaust
temperature althout it had to be used frequently. The solution was to
blend the fuel with the low cetane output of the Bergius Hydrogenation
plants.

At one point prior to WW2 kerosene powered spark ignition were quite
popular and they still have their proponents.

Gas turbines are ofcourse indifferent to both centane number and
octane rating and even viscosity and are uneffected in life or
efficiency (whuch reduce in multifuel diesels)

At the moment there are attempts to develop 'photo detonation'
internal combustion engines that do not rely on deflageration
combustion (ie combustion along a flame front rather than by infra red
light) and thus will be indifferent to octane ratings.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

The high compression ratios for diesel piston engines cause detonation using
wide cut jet fuel.

AFAIK, neither JP-5 nor JP-8 nor Jet A -- the 3 jet fuels currently in common
use -- are "wide cut."

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
news:PhTfc.150671$w54.1052744@attbi_s01...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

The high compression ratios for diesel piston engines cause detonation
using
wide cut jet fuel.

AFAIK, neither JP-5 nor JP-8 nor Jet A -- the 3 jet fuels currently in
common
use -- are "wide cut."

One of them seems to be number one diesel, from what other posters have
posted here.

"Eunometic" wrote in message
om...


At the moment there are attempts to develop 'photo detonation'
internal combustion engines that do not rely on deflageration
combustion (ie combustion along a flame front rather than by infra red
light) and thus will be indifferent to octane ratings.

Where can I learn more about this?
Curious old school gear head here

Jim E

"Jim E" wrote in message ...
"Eunometic" wrote in message
om...


At the moment there are attempts to develop 'photo detonation'
internal combustion engines that do not rely on deflageration
combustion (ie combustion along a flame front rather than by infra red
light) and thus will be indifferent to octane ratings.

Where can I learn more about this?
Curious old school gear head here

Jim E

Use the advanced options in google groups search to find this thread:

Message-ID:

Hi NG,

The high compression ratios for diesel piston engines cause
detonation using
wide cut jet fuel.

Diesel engines cannot "detonate". The term "detonation" applies to
preignition of part of the charge before ignition or before the
flamefront has reached that portion of the charge. Sometimes if the
flamefront goes supersonic this is also called "detonation". Neither
can happen on a diesel engine, as the charge contains only air and the
fuel burnes as it is injected.

As said before, Diesel engines will burn jetfuel, however the
lubrication properties are much lower so the injection system has to be
designed to live with that. (As a matter of fact, the same thing
applies to Diesel engines for GA aircraft, which are just hitting the
market now, and all of which run on Jetfuel!) Also energy content is
somewhat lower. If designed for it, this can be compensated by
increasing the amount of injected fuel accordingly.

regards,
Friedrich

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