50+:1 15m sailplanes

Earlier, (Kirk Stant) wrote:

OK, I see your point - It's just a bit surprising given all the hoopla
that airplane manufacturers put our about the "huge cost of
certification", etc. Then why does any builder of sport aircraft
worry about certification? Why aren't there a bunch of factory-built
RV-8s running around with EXPERIMENTAL on them? Does it have to do
with commercial use of the plane? Insurance? Airplane vs Glider? I
think I may have to dig a little to see what is in the regs.

That is an interesting issue, and I'm glad you raised it.

First off, the typical operating limitations of Experimental,
Racing/Exhibition are usually quite different from those of
Experimental, Amateur-built. With Amateur-built experimentals, once
you've flown off the initial 25- or 40-hour test period, the typical
operating limitations are generally almost as liberal as for a type
certificated airplane. You can operate over congested areas, you can
fly with passengers, and it's OK to wander around on the typical $100
hamburger hunting trip. There's none of that "program letter"
business. And to get one of those certificates, all you have to do is
demonstrate that the major portion of the aircraft was built for the
purposes of recreation and education.

However, the operating limitations of Experimental, Racing and
Experimental, Exhibition are typically more restrictive. For a full
list of what you'd typically encounter, see this Jim Pratt Web page:

http://www.provide.net/~pratt1/ambuilt/exhibyak.htm

For a powered airplane, those restrictions can be quite onerous, and
take a lot of fun out of owning the airplane. However, for a glider
they virtually disappear into the inherent limitations of soaring
flight:

* Most soaring operations take place in the middle of nowhere, where
there are few congested areas or airspace issues. And if you do have
to deviate into a congested area to find a landing spot, well, that's
an operation required for landing so it's (probably) OK.

* It's not too farfetched to posit that every soaring flight is a
proficiency run for some future contest. Glider contests are, after
all, pretty common, and ASW-20s and similar are often flown in
contests. I can imagine that it would be good if you flew in a contest
every few years, but I've known of a few people with such gliders who
don't.

* You've got that whole "program letter" thing, but if you can soar to
the edge of a 300 nautical mile operating cylinder, you're doing
great. And if you've done your letter right, even that's probably not
a problem. From what I've seen, glider program letters get relatively
light scrutiny.

* Since most sport sailplanes have only one seat, all the verbiage
about passengers and required crewmembers goes right out the window.

Thanks again, and best regards to all

Bob K.
http://www.hpaircraft.com

Mark James Boyd wrote:

snip
The heat on the tail scares me though. Hmmm...how do we
get rid of the glider tail?

Duhhhhh... run the jet engine a little too long!? :-)

The Sparrow Hawk is built under paet 103 which states a ultra light
glider is one which wieghs less than 155Lbs, now if you want to go and
compete at a regional which requires that all sailplanes have a
airworthiness certificate you can certify the SparrowHawk as
Experimental Air Racing because of the "need" required for racing. As
what was said earlier the limitations are attached to the pink ticket.
The limitations usually state that you hve a profiency area of 300
miles from your airport, now if you want to go somewhere else you can
just as long as you notify your local FSDO, maybe you just want to try
for a badge, any excuse will work, it will be the insurance company
asking the questions when you make the claim, if you have a
Experimental Air Racing and do not have any limitions attached you
better find them because you are not legal without them. Other wise
you fly as a utralight, nothing wrong with that.



"mm" wrote in message ...
"Kirk Stant" wrote in message
om...
(Bob Kuykendall) wrote in message
. com...


OK, I see your point - It's just a bit surprising given all the hoopla
that airplane manufacturers put our about the "huge cost of
certification", etc. Then why does any builder of sport aircraft
worry about certification? Why aren't there a bunch of factory-built
RV-8s running around with EXPERIMENTAL on them? Does it have to do
with commercial use of the plane? Insurance? Airplane vs Glider? I
think I may have to dig a little to see what is in the regs.

Because RV-8's are not generally used for exhibition and racing. There are
other categories for EXPERIMENTAL certification, like "Marketing Demo",
"Development", and "Amateur/Home Built" but these would also be unlikely to
apply to a typical factory built RV-8 (or Cezzna, or whatever). You can't
get an EXPERIMENTAL certificate just because you (as a manufacture) don't
want to bother with certification. This is one of the reasons that I am
amused by the vocal "anti-racing" crowd that occasionally pipes up; if it
wasn't for sailplane racing the basis of the EXPERIMENTAL certifications of
most US gliders would be questionable.

mm