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#21
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Henry J Cobb wrote:
What good would it do to carry a short range air to air missile in such a way that it increases your radar return to the extent that the enemy will now be able to engage your fighter beyond the range of that missile? Well, JSF will carry external bomb loads from time to time. If it's already hauling bombs externally, it makes sense to hang self-defense missiles there too. In theory, this will happen only after the enemy air defenses are beaten down, but I'd really hate to be wrong. I'm also curious how you reached your conclusion about detection vs firing ranges. I'm sure you have no detailed knowledge of JSF's radar signature, ASRAAM's effective range, or the detection ranges of enemy radars. -- Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail "Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right." - Senator Carl Schurz, 1872 |
#22
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#24
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On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:01:05 +0100, ess (phil
hunt) wrote: On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:40:50 -0600, Scott Ferrin wrote: On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 01:48:57 +0100, ess (phil hunt) wrote: On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:44:59 -0600, Scott Ferrin wrote: From what I've read they're spending more $$$ trying to make it so it's not reverse engineerable than trying to figure out how to make two different versions. Maybe in the end they'll come down to the export models having older generation RAM (it's already been compromised with that F-117 shoot down) and a maybe not so fancy radome if they can't figure out a safe way. Would hate a repeat of the Iran/Pakistan thing. Which was? We sold Tomcats to Iran, the turned into an enemy an sent a Tomcat complete with Phoenix missile to the FSU. We sold Pakistan F-16s and I've read that at least one found it's way to the FSU. It would suck to sell top of the line technology to a country who then sends it on to China. Or, in the case of Israel, give away top of the line technology... Yeah that one slipped my mind. Patriot, Lavi, Python 3. . . |
#25
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"John Cook" wrote in message ... Just seen a chart that said the Aim9x is going to be intergrated on the F-35 externally. Seems the US isn't worried to much by external SRAAM's There are different levels of stealth and different needs for it at different times. On day one of combat you need a lot but as the war progresses satisfactorily it becomes less important as the enemy's defenses are destroyed. On day one planes like the F-35 will not carry weapons externally. Later on as the threat level decreases you can start carrying stuff externally since the loss of some stealth isn't as big an issue. |
#26
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On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:05:58 -0400, "John Keeney"
wrote: "John Cook" wrote in message .. . Just seen a chart that said the Aim9x is going to be intergrated on the F-35 externally. Seems the US isn't worried to much by external SRAAM's There are different levels of stealth and different needs for it at different times. On day one of combat you need a lot but as the war progresses satisfactorily it becomes less important as the enemy's defenses are destroyed. On day one planes like the F-35 will not carry weapons externally. Later on as the threat level decreases you can start carrying stuff externally since the loss of some stealth isn't as big an issue. I know I was just pointing out the differences between the RAF an US versions, the UK don't see the need for external intergration of SRAAM or brimstone while the US does, must be a doctrine thing. Cheers John Cook Any spelling mistakes/grammatic errors are there purely to annoy. All opinions are mine, not TAFE's however much they beg me for them. Email Address :- Spam trap - please remove (trousers) to email me Eurofighter Website :- http://www.eurofighter-typhoon.co.uk |
#27
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On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:40:42 GMT, "Thomas Schoene"
wrote: Henry J Cobb wrote: What good would it do to carry a short range air to air missile in such a way that it increases your radar return to the extent that the enemy will now be able to engage your fighter beyond the range of that missile? Well, JSF will carry external bomb loads from time to time. If it's already hauling bombs externally, it makes sense to hang self-defense missiles there too. In theory, this will happen only after the enemy air defenses are beaten down, but I'd really hate to be wrong. I'm also curious how you reached your conclusion about detection vs firing ranges. I'm sure you have no detailed knowledge of JSF's radar signature, ASRAAM's effective range, or the detection ranges of enemy radars. wouldnt the Aim-9x have a lower RCS then the Aim-120 anyway, so how much increase to the planes overall RCS would a Sidewinder put on a plane anyway. And take into account by the time you get in range to use the Aim-9/ASRAAM your stealth is meaningless cause everything is visible/IR target tracking. JMO |
#28
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"Lyle" wrote in message ... On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:40:42 GMT, "Thomas Schoene" wrote: Henry J Cobb wrote: What good would it do to carry a short range air to air missile in such a way that it increases your radar return to the extent that the enemy will now be able to engage your fighter beyond the range of that missile? Well, JSF will carry external bomb loads from time to time. If it's already hauling bombs externally, it makes sense to hang self-defense missiles there too. In theory, this will happen only after the enemy air defenses are beaten down, but I'd really hate to be wrong. I'm also curious how you reached your conclusion about detection vs firing ranges. I'm sure you have no detailed knowledge of JSF's radar signature, ASRAAM's effective range, or the detection ranges of enemy radars. wouldnt the Aim-9x have a lower RCS then the Aim-120 anyway, so how much increase to the planes overall RCS would a Sidewinder put on a plane anyway. A lot. Consider that they have been dillying around with how to cover joints at fuselage openings to maintain the stealthy characteristics of the F-117, B-2, etc. Recall the account from the head of the Skunk Works during the F-117 development who noted that an incorrectly set fastener blew the RCS out of of the steathy mode during an early test. *Anything* protruding outside of the aircraft will tend to increase its RCS--they spend a great deal of effort finetuning the exterior design to acheive a low RCS, and new appendages would trash a lot of that effort. As to comparing it to the AIM 120, why? As long as the missiles are carried internally, what is the point? And take into account by the time you get in range to use the Aim-9/ASRAAM your stealth is meaningless cause everything is visible/IR target tracking. JMO At night? Approaching the target from the side or quarter, outside of any IR seeker coverage (but inside the coverage of the radars of his supporting AWACS or ground-based systems)? And do all frontline fighters have a good IRST? Nope. Or if you are carrying the AIM-9 as a self-defense only measure, and your real mission is to strike the airfield that the defending aircraft is loitering about? How about the fact that your "meaningless" stealth may still be effective against shorter wavelength systems (like a weapons guidance package)--you still want to toss that out the window? Brooks |
#29
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Also somewhat relevant to the JSF and international participation "A top Norwegian Parliament official warned yesterday that the country would abandon the Joint Strike Fighter program if project manager Lockheed Martin Corp. doesn't help Norway's local industries secure work on the aircraft. " http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Apr15.html (http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/ir...icle776731.ece for a norwegian version of the same story) This is as far as I know, nothing new on the part of Lockheed. The buy-back contracts for the F-16s we bought 30 years ago have still not been honored in full by Lockheed as far as I'm aware. Øystein -- Roy Batty: I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. |
#30
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(=?iso-8859-1?q?=D8ystein_Tvedten?=) wrote:
Also somewhat relevant to the JSF and international participation "A top Norwegian Parliament official warned yesterday that the country would abandon the Joint Strike Fighter program if project manager Lockheed Martin Corp. doesn't help Norway's local industries secure work on the aircraft. " http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Apr15.html (http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/ir...icle776731.ece for a norwegian version of the same story) This is as far as I know, nothing new on the part of Lockheed. The buy-back contracts for the F-16s we bought 30 years ago have still not been honored in full by Lockheed as far as I'm aware. Øystein -- Time to die. Europe needs to get completely out of the JSF program. Amerika is now the depraved mirror-image of the grotesque degenerate foulness that is Isreal. They are rotten, and anyone who collaberates with them smears themselves with the same filthy rottenness. Go with Eurofighter and/or Rafale/Gripen . Let the foul torturers rot in their own stinking juice. Death to the Whore! Grantland |
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