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#41
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I respectfully disagree. A prebuy inspection is what **I** am comfortable with.
And, as I said, I don't do them, because my comfort level is way to hell and gone off the top end. I want that person buying that airplane to know every little wear pattern on the airplane, in stark contrast to my annuals which certify that no part is beyond wear or airworthiness limits. I stick to my guns. An annual is 2 hours (more or less) of pure inspection. A prebuy to my standards is 25 hours or so; that's my 12:1 ratio I talked about. That's why I don't do them for anybody but myself. Jim (Doug) shared these priceless pearls of wisdom: -There really is no such thing as "a standard pre-buy". A pre buy can -consist of anything you authorize the mechanic to do. Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup) VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor http://www.rst-engr.com |
#42
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Great advise... As in any business there are those that would take
advantage of others. That is not how I live my life but hey I'm the one that has to live with "the guy in the mirror". The way that this situation went down was that the seller didn't give an explaination as to why he didn't want the pre-buy done at Byerly. As a side note the sellers good friend was going to go with us to the pre-buy to overse things. To my partner and I it just is not worth the hassle of trying to figure out the reason(s) for the sellers decision. I accept that. We have decided to get our deposit back and keep on looking. There are many planes out there and frankly it would have been an odd situation to buy the first on we looked at. I apprecate everyones posts. Thanks !! Jon Kraus PP-ASEL-IA Student airplane purchaser C Kingsbury wrote: Bob Noel wrote in message ... In article , Jon Kraus wrote: I agree with you 100%. Matter of fact the seller just informed my FBO that he will not allow the plane to inspected by Byerly Aviation who is a well respected Mooney shop. I think we are going to pass on this one. something to consider: The seller might not like the shop because of a bad experience. I know one A&P that I won't let touch my airplane ever again (but he's not in the IL area). Friend of mine just sold his 172. Before the buyer took it to pre-buy, he (my friend) had his preferred mechanic do a compression check. One cylinder was OK (mid 60s) rest in the low 70s. The prospective buyer takes it to his guy, report comes back, one cylinder shot (58), two questionable (61-63) and one in the high 60s. None of the results matched up with the previous comp check. Buyer sez, "I want $2500 off because I'm going to have to replace three jugs instead of one like you said." My friend says, OK, how's about we take the plane together, tomorrow, to a third shop on the same field as your guy and get it checked there. Buyer says OK, they fly over there, and mechanic #3 does the check with the buyer over his shoulder. Everything within 1psi of the check my friend's mechanic did. Buyer got half his money back from his (former) mechanic and bought the plane. If it's a reputable, well-known place, I'd ask the guy for an explanation of why he won't let you take it there. If the deal looks good otherwise it might be worth trying to salvage. -cwk. |
#43
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Sensitive enough to stick up for myself yes...
Morgans wrote: "Jon Kraus" wrote in message ... Probably more then you are ... you dream on Douggy.... :-) Hmm, a bit too sensitive? Plonk |
#44
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Ummm... wouldn't that be you Libs not me.... ;-)
PLONK, SLAM, DUNK !!!! Morgans wrote: "Jon Kraus" wrote in message ... Probably more then you are ... you dream on Douggy.... :-) Hmm, a bit too sensitive? Plonk |
#45
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Jim Weir wrote in message . ..
That's about the furthest thing from the truth I've ever seen in these newsgroups. A prebuy is a DOZEN times harder than an annual inspection. All an annual inspection tells you is that nothing on the airplane is worn past service limits at the time of the inspection. snipped for length, not content Heh. Having done waaay mor than fair share of pre-buy's, the best definition of a pre-buy was the one my old boss (FBO owner, ATP-rated, designated flight examiner, line pilot, AP/IA, new/used broker) gave to my wife. I was in the next hangar "inspecting" with the seller, the seller's broker, the prospective buyer, and the prospective buyer's broker. "Where's my husband?" "He's next door taking it in the ass." Pre-buy's suck, there is no formal definition under the FAR, and to do a proper one (as you indicate) takes an incredible amount of time, depending on the age/condition of the plane & maintenance records being inspected. Another "selling" broker's comment- "I've never had anyone take two days to do a pre-buy on a single" My response- "Don't come back" Have had quite a few where the aircraft, by definition, was unairworthy (9 times out of 10 due to paperwork issues). As a technician/inspector, my only "legal" recourse is of course to inform the pilot/operator, and walk away. My all-time favorites are ships recently brought back into the States. Plus the ones that have had recent blank-check periodic inspections from so-called "premier" make/model specific maintenance facilities and are absolute pieces of (insert excrement of choice). Bonanza's and Mooney's tend to fall into that category, sorry to say. Regards; TC |
#46
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Jon Kraus wrote: As far as the pre-buy inspection goes the folks that do them tell me that they take not anywhere near 25 hours to do. An A&P with experience with Maules can do an annual inspection of my aircraft in something like 18 hours. That includes all the "grunt work" that I normally do myself. I don't find it hard to believe that someone who's really trying to do a good job of finding every problem they reasonably can would take a few hours longer. George Patterson If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people he gives it to. |
#47
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"Jon Kraus" wrote in message ... Great advise... As in any business there are those that would take advantage of others. To my partner and I it just is not worth the hassle of trying to figure out the reason(s) for the sellers decision. I accept that. We have decided to get our deposit back and keep on looking. There are many planes out there and frankly it would have been an odd situation to buy the first on we looked at. I apprecate everyones posts. Thanks !! Jon Kraus Good choice. When something does not feel right, it isn't. I do agree with Jim W's opinion about a pre buy inspection. It should be much more in depth than an annual. Find out what "might" have to be replaced in the next couple/few years, vs. an annual telling you what "has" to be replaced, right now. Also, take the time to get AD compliance well researched, and title checked. But you knew that, already, right? G -- Jim in NC |
#48
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"Jon Kraus" wrote in message ... Sensitive enough to stick up for myself yes... I was a bit harsh. What I meant to say, was it is better off, from a mechanic's viewpoint, to really take the time to tear into things, (not just look on the surface) to find all the things that will cost you money down the road, with an airplane you do not own yet. With an airplane you already own, you will have to suck it up and keep fixing things as they come up. It will take less time inspecting it, to do that. IMHO -- Jim in NC |
#49
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Did you miss the phrase "...when the object should be to make an honest
deal"? Coins in the pocket is more important than honor to a lot of people today, but that doesn't justify changing an agreed upon price INDISCRIMINATELY. I believe if you read my posts, you will see that I agreed that the tentative, fair price should be negotiated before the pre-buy. If something else turns up in the pre-buy that I wasn't aware of during the previous negotiations, then I'd absolutely renegotiate based on new information. On the other hand, if nothing turned up that I wasn't already aware of, the honorable thing to do would be to conclude the deal based on the previously determined fair price. How can you disagree with this approach? -- Jim Carter |
#50
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I agree that you should take the time to look into things throughly too.
I suppose that you can take this to extremes too (either way, too little time or too much time). I certainly want to have an "expert" check out the aircraft and associated logs carefully. My thought was that this particular shop (Byerly) would be well prepared to do this. As far at the time goes for how long the pre-buy would take I was just going by what the shop said. Anyway no harm no foul. The search continues. Thanks!! Jon Kraus PP-ASEL-IA Student airplane purchaser Morgans wrote: "Jon Kraus" wrote in message ... Sensitive enough to stick up for myself yes... I was a bit harsh. What I meant to say, was it is better off, from a mechanic's viewpoint, to really take the time to tear into things, (not just look on the surface) to find all the things that will cost you money down the road, with an airplane you do not own yet. With an airplane you already own, you will have to suck it up and keep fixing things as they come up. It will take less time inspecting it, to do that. IMHO |
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