Cable vs rope pulling glider from field

I'd like to make a stout wire cable or rope with proper TOST ring, to
have on hand should I have to tow my 15m glider from mud/soft dirt/
guano.
Is a metal cable necessary/preferable, or would high breaking-strength
rope be sufficient?
My only experience here (Chester loam, Pegase, and stick-shift BMW)
did not end well.
Thanks in advance,
Erik

Erik,

I don't think pulling your glider out of such a situation via its tow
hook is advisable. The drag from the landing gear and fuselage could
easily exceed the tow hook's structural mounting (read, expensive
repairs).

The one time I landed in a soft field we got the plane out by
disassembling it where it stopped, and carrying the pieces to the
trailer. Messy, and hard work, but I flew the next day (after washing
off the mud).

-John

On Oct 12, 11:34 am, Auxvache wrote:
I'd like to make a stout wire cable or rope with proper TOST ring, to
have on hand should I have to tow my 15m glider from mud/soft dirt/
guano.
Is a metal cable necessary/preferable, or would high breaking-strength
rope be sufficient?
My only experience here (Chester loam, Pegase, and stick-shift BMW)
did not end well.
Thanks in advance,
Erik

On Oct 12, 9:34*am, Auxvache wrote:
I'd like to make a stout wire cable or rope with proper TOST ring, to
have on hand should I have to tow my 15m glider from mud/soft dirt/
guano.
Is a metal cable necessary/preferable, or would high breaking-strength
rope be sufficient?
My only experience here (Chester loam, Pegase, and stick-shift BMW)
did not end well.
Thanks in advance,
Erik

Steel cable is nasty - use Dyneema rope instead so it can be neatly
rolled up. Use the Tost weak link called out in your glider's manual
to protect the hook and glider from overloads. If that won't get you
out, you're REALLY stuck.

If this is a regular occurrence, consider a small portable 12V
electric winch from a vendor like Warn temporarily fitted to the
receiver hitch on your BMW so the glider can be slowly and gently
pulled out of the muck without stressing the car's clutch. Replace
the steel cable with Dyneema rope.
http://www.amazon.com/Warn-68531-WAR.../dp/B000CQBMMW
http://www.warn.com/truck/winches/VR8000_winch.shtml

On Oct 12, 10:34*am, Auxvache wrote:
I'd like to make a stout wire cable or rope with proper TOST ring, to
have on hand should I have to tow my 15m glider from mud/soft dirt/
guano.
Is a metal cable necessary/preferable, or would high breaking-strength
rope be sufficient?
My only experience here (Chester loam, Pegase, and stick-shift BMW)
did not end well.
Thanks in advance,
Erik

You might consider keeping a Tost ring set in your glider, as part of
your landout kit. Nice to have when you want a local to help move
your glider to a different location for derigging, etc. Rope of some
sort is almost always available, but trying to use a rope loop in a
Tost release is an exercise in futility!

Kirk

At 17:43 12 October 2011, kirk.stant wrote:
On Oct 12, 10:34=A0am, Auxvache wrote:
I'd like to make a stout wire cable or rope with proper TOST ring, to
have on hand should I have to tow my 15m glider from mud/soft dirt/
guano.
Is a metal cable necessary/preferable, or would high breaking-strength
rope be sufficient?
My only experience here (Chester loam, Pegase, and stick-shift BMW)
did not end well.
Thanks in advance,
Erik

You might consider keeping a Tost ring set in your glider, as part of
your landout kit. Nice to have when you want a local to help move
your glider to a different location for derigging, etc. Rope of some
sort is almost always available, but trying to use a rope loop in a
Tost release is an exercise in futility!

Kirk


If you are putting strain on the tow rope make sure you lay something
reasonably heavy (coat, car rug etc.) over the rope more than half from the
car to the glider. That way if the rope does break the rings, weak link
etc. won't end up flying through your back window!

On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 19:38:24 +0000, Ben Watkins wrote:

At 17:43 12 October 2011, kirk.stant wrote:
On Oct 12, 10:34=A0am, Auxvache wrote:
I'd like to make a stout wire cable or rope with proper TOST ring, to
have on hand should I have to tow my 15m glider from mud/soft dirt/
guano.
Is a metal cable necessary/preferable, or would high breaking-strength
rope be sufficient?
My only experience here (Chester loam, Pegase, and stick-shift BMW)
did not end well.
Thanks in advance,
Erik

You might consider keeping a Tost ring set in your glider, as part of
your landout kit. Nice to have when you want a local to help move your
glider to a different location for derigging, etc. Rope of some sort is
almost always available, but trying to use a rope loop in a Tost release
is an exercise in futility!

Kirk


If you are putting strain on the tow rope make sure you lay something
reasonably heavy (coat, car rug etc.) over the rope more than half from
the car to the glider. That way if the rope does break the rings, weak
link etc. won't end up flying through your back window!

....and use a rope with as little stretch, which means energy storage, as
possible. A light weight cable is good too for the same reason.

Steel cable is about the worst thing you could use because of the way it
lashed round if it or a fixing breaks under load and, and is harder to
wind up and store than it needs to be. OTOH plastic rope rope,
particularly Dyneema or good quality climbing rope, both have minimal
energy storage and are easy to handle.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Oct 12, 2:18*pm, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 19:38:24 +0000, Ben Watkins wrote:
At 17:43 12 October 2011, kirk.stant wrote:
On Oct 12, 10:34=A0am, Auxvache *wrote:
I'd like to make a stout wire cable or rope with proper TOST ring, to
have on hand should I have to tow my 15m glider from mud/soft dirt/
guano.
Is a metal cable necessary/preferable, or would high breaking-strength
rope be sufficient?
My only experience here (Chester loam, Pegase, and stick-shift BMW)
did not end well.
Thanks in advance,
Erik

You might consider keeping a Tost ring set in your glider, as part of
your landout kit. *Nice to have when you want a local to help move your
glider to a different location for derigging, etc. *Rope of some sort is
almost always available, but trying to use a rope loop in a Tost release
is an exercise in futility!

Kirk

If you are putting strain on the tow rope make sure you lay something
reasonably heavy (coat, car rug etc.) over the rope more than half from
the car to the glider. That way if the rope does break the rings, weak
link etc. won't end up flying through your back window!

...and use a rope with as little stretch, which means energy storage, as
possible. A light weight cable is good too for the same reason.

Steel cable is about the worst thing you could use because of the way it
lashed round if it or a fixing breaks under load and, and is harder to
wind up and store than it needs to be. OTOH plastic rope rope,
particularly Dyneema or good quality climbing rope, both have minimal
energy storage and are easy to handle.

--
martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org * * * |

Actually for the force required, 2mm Dyneema would be strong
enough. The 12V winch linked above would likely hold 2000 feet or
so. If you landed in a boggy field which wouldn't support a car and
needed to get the glider to its trailer, this would be just the
trick. Mount the winch at the front of a trailer and it could help
get the glider onto its fuselage dolly, then pull the fuselage into
the trailer.

Thanks very much for your answers--sounds like Dyneema with a weak
link and Tost ring would be a good set-up.
And, forewarned, I promise not to dehisce the nose of the glider with
Farmer Brown's tractor.
Or shatter the back window of mum's grocery-getter.

And if it gets to be a regular occurrence, I'll find another hobby.

Erik

And if it gets to be a regular occurrence, I'll find another hobby.

A landout every now and then isn't too bad. Luckily I've never gotten
into such a muddy field that I couldn't get the glider moved out.
Benefit of flying mostly in fairly dry climates I guess. There was
one time where I avoided a very muddy mucky mess by landing on a clear
unobstructed stretch of paved county road. I've only got 30ish
landouts though and a mere 6 or 7 this season.

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 06:39:38 -0700, Auxvache wrote:

Thanks very much for your answers--sounds like Dyneema with a weak link
and Tost ring would be a good set-up.

Yes, I'd agree, but with one warning I should have mentioned: a naked
Dyneema cord is not a good idea because the slightest handling abrasion
tends to fluff it up into an unusable woolly caterpillar-like thing. I
discovered this when trying to use a thin woven Dyneema (80 lb) line to
control the VIT stop on a free flight power model - even expecting it to
handle a 90 degree bend by sliding round a 3mm brass tube was too rough
and caused it to fluff up and become unusable.

What I've found to be excellent is a core of unwoven Dyneema inside a
woven Dacron casing. I've used 100 lb kite bridle (about 0.7mm diameter)
as model glider towline. This was very easy to handle and almost totally
abrasion resistant. I believe you can get this type of line in up to at
least 3mm diameter.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |