Landing with one spoiler

On 22 Sep 2005 15:42:44 GMT, Chris Rollings
wrote:

The last DG300 I flew was standard Class, what flaps?

Ahhh.. sorry: I meant airbrakes.



Bye
Andreas

In article , Andreas Maurer
writes
On 21 Sep 2005 21:16:29 -0700, "Andy" wrote:

You did better than a very experienced local club member who had the
same problem many years ago in a DG300. He had one air brake open on
tow, released early instead of gaining altitude and time, misjudged the
approach and rolled it up in a ball.

Hmmm... the DG-300 has fully automatic control hookups for the flaps.
How could that happen?


Bye
Andreas

I didn't think the DG 300 had flaps.
--
Mike Lindsay

If one spoiler deploys and the other one does not, and it will not retract,
and it significantly affects landing, I expect that a forward slip, with the
fuselage blocking the deployed spoiler (or flap) would be an alternative to
try.

At a time like that, you are glad you do not have barn door spoilers.

Colin

Chris Rollings wrote:
I recollect once watching someone land an ASW20 with
only one brake deployed. The pilot didn't even notice
there was a problem, just wondered why one wing dropped
a little earlier than usual. Lucky, I would agree.

I too did an incomplete check and one brake on my ASW-20 came full open on tow. Though controllable it was easier to open both (the other) brake to balance the yaw force. After climbing to a suitable altitude I released and landed successfully using the "both" brakes method. As one can see there is a difference how to handle the case of one brake that won't deploy versus the case where the one brake stays deployed. Rudy Allemann

In article ,
David Salmon wrote:

Second time was test flying a club Grob Acro after
C of A and rigging. It had some cosmetic work done
on the brake slots. On the ground everything worked
perfectly, it had a rigging check, DI, and 2 pre flights
because we initially had a ground run cable break.
On approach the brakes would not open, but did so after
applying quite alot of pressure. In fact one opened
and the other side wing pushrod bent.
After repairs we tried again, after first getting a
lot of people pushing up on the wings, the brakes were
OK. Top of the launch, they would not open until we
pushed over for some reduced G.

Note to self: if brakes won't open, try a pushover to unload the wings.

--
Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+-
Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O----------

We do practice that here.
But many places do not practice for this.
Full spoilers deployed ( to achieve symmetry) through approach, from
the point of unlocking through flare/round out and touchdown. The
typical error we find made by pilots in this configuration is the
tendency to "hurry" on approach, with extra airspeed, and not
understand how it will affect their glide slope.

It should be much less of a handling worry to make the glider
symmetrical, and control the approach in a regular configuration, than
to begin to think of all the "different" things you could do to
accommodate the asymmetry.

Just because there are several stories reported here of pilots who
either "didn't notice" their configuration issues, or handled
them with aplomb, remember that this is frequently Not The Case for
just as many others.

We also practice/teach approaches with spoilers completely closed, but
that is a different thread.

Cindy B
Caracole Soaring

"CindyASK" wrote in message
ups.com...
We do practice that here.
But many places do not practice for this.
Full spoilers deployed ( to achieve symmetry) through approach, from
the point of unlocking through flare/round out and touchdown. The
typical error we find made by pilots in this configuration is the
tendency to "hurry" on approach, with extra airspeed, and not
understand how it will affect their glide slope.

It should be much less of a handling worry to make the glider
symmetrical, and control the approach in a regular configuration, than
to begin to think of all the "different" things you could do to
accommodate the asymmetry.

Just because there are several stories reported here of pilots who
either "didn't notice" their configuration issues, or handled
them with aplomb, remember that this is frequently Not The Case for
just as many others.

We also practice/teach approaches with spoilers completely closed, but
that is a different thread.

Cindy B
Caracole Soaring


Good thoughts. Good also to keep in mind that many gliders will have the
wheel brake fully applied with full spoiler deployment making the touchdown
'interesting'.

Once, long ago, I tested the effect of asymmetrical spoiler deployment to
find out if it would make a suitable roll control. I found that I could
twist around in the seat of a 1-26 just enough to pull one of the spoiler
cables behind the spar box. I was surprised to find that the roll/yaw
effect was small - at least at normal approach airspeeds.

As long as the airspeed is not too high, asymmetrical spoiler can be
controlled with rudder and aileron. Of course, at higher speeds, the yaw
from an open spoiler will overpower the rudder because drag is proportional
to the square of the airspeed. Somehow, rudder authority doesn't increase
at the same rate.

Bill Daniels

In 2001 I was sadly involved with the aftermath of
an accident to an SZD
Junior. The BGA/AAIB inquiry found evidence that one
airbrake had
deployed (over-ranging and a broken drive gear) - the
result was a spiral
dive into the ground. Moves to test a Junior rigged
so that only one
brake deployed were vetoed (non-airworthy, so uninsured).


A test pilot study of a range of glider types with
one brake deployed
would, no doubt, make interesting reading though.

It is always worth visually checking the brakes if
the glider develops
asymetry during flight. It is also worth trying the
occasional full brake
landing, just in case. I wouldn't recommend practising
no-brake landings
though.

Ray

At 03:12 23 September 2005, Bill Daniels wrote:

'CindyASK' wrote in message
oups.com...
We do practice that here.
But many places do not practice for this.
Full spoilers deployed ( to achieve symmetry) through
approach,
from
the point of unlocking through flare/round out and
touchdown. The
typical error we find made by pilots in this configuration
is the
tendency to 'hurry' on approach, with extra airspeed,
and not
understand how it will affect their glide slope.

It should be much less of a handling worry to make
the glider
symmetrical, and control the approach in a regular
configuration,
than
to begin to think of all the 'different' things you
could do to
accommodate the asymmetry.

Just because there are several stories reported here
of pilots who
either 'didn't notice' their configuration issues,
or handled
them with aplomb, remember that this is frequently
Not The Case for
just as many others.

We also practice/teach approaches with spoilers completely
closed,
but
that is a different thread.

Cindy B
Caracole Soaring


Good thoughts. Good also to keep in mind that many
gliders will have
the
wheel brake fully applied with full spoiler deployment
making the
touchdown
'interesting'.

Once, long ago, I tested the effect of asymmetrical
spoiler deployment
to
find out if it would make a suitable roll control.
I found that I could
twist around in the seat of a 1-26 just enough to pull
one of the spoiler
cables behind the spar box. I was surprised to find
that the roll/yaw
effect was small - at least at normal approach airspeeds.

As long as the airspeed is not too high, asymmetrical
spoiler can be
controlled with rudder and aileron. Of course, at
higher speeds, the
yaw
from an open spoiler will overpower the rudder because
drag is
proportional
to the square of the airspeed. Somehow, rudder authority
doesn't
increase
at the same rate.

Bill Daniels

As part of an instructors course I had to master the art of getting a
Grob twin down without airbrake. It took a few attempts. Without a BIG
airfield I have no doubt that it would end in tears, even having done
it before I doubt if I could repeat the excercise under pressure.

At 14:06 23 September 2005, wrote:
As part of an instructors course I had to master the
art of getting a
Grob twin down without airbrake. It took a few attempts.
Without a BIG
airfield I have no doubt that it would end in tears,
even having done
it before I doubt if I could repeat the excercise under
pressure.

Does no-one teach side slipping as an approach control
these days?