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#21
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Is rudder required for coordinated turns?
Mxsmanic wrote
I've been flying the Baron 58 and the 737 from the stock game All swept wing airliners that I am familiar with (Boeings) have a full time yaw damper that keeps the rudder where it belongs at all times. The airplanes make perfectly coordinated turns with one's feet flat on the floor. :-) Bob Moore ATP B-707 B-727 PanAm (retired) |
#22
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Is rudder required for coordinated turns?
Darrell S schrieb:
That said, most aircraft require a pilot input of rudder to coordinate a roll input. Little, if any, rudder is required once the roll stops and a constant bank is maintained. Ever flown a glider? You'd be surprized! A coordinated turn is *always* a turn around all three axis. If some powered airplanes don't require rudder, it's because a) the rudder is somehow coupled to the ailerons, b) the weight of the engine will cause the nose to drop enough without rudder or c) the pilot doesn't care enough about being coordinated. My experience says that power-only pilots tend to solution c). (Note: The ball is a pretty coarse instrument.) Stefan |
#23
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Is rudder required for coordinated turns?
Darrell S schrieb:
That said, most aircraft require a pilot input of rudder to coordinate a roll input. Little, if any, rudder is required once the roll stops and a constant bank is maintained. Ever flown a glider? You'd be surprized! A coordinated turn is *always* a turn around all three axis. If some powered airplanes don't require rudder, it's because a) the rudder is somehow coupled to the ailerons, b) the weight of the engine will cause the nose to drop enough without rudder or c) the pilot doesn't care enough about being coordinated. My experience says that power-only pilots tend to solution c). (Note: The ball is a pretty coarse instrument.) Stefan I've only had one introductory flight in a glider and that was more than 20 years ago in a two place Blanick. The most memorable thing, aside from being about the most fun a person can have in daylight, is that turn cooridination is much more than rolling in and rolling out. Due to the combination of slow forward speed (when spiralling at minimum rate of descent) and long wing span, the wing toward the inside of the turn is much closer to the stall and a noticeable amount of cross control is required. Typically, powered aircraft are rarely flown in that portion of the flight envelope and many pilots regard turns at low airspeed as extremely dangerous and an invitation to an unintentional spin. Most of us were taught that the low end of the airspeed envelope is hazardous and to be avoided in flight, with the result that very few powered airplane pilots maintain proficiency in very slow flight. Also, since the wings are short and the stall speeds are generally higher, I doubt that the effect is ever really noticeable. As to "c", the yaw string is a lor more sensitive, but takes a little more practice than I was able to give it--since the doggoned thing works backward! Peter Just my $0.02 |
#24
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Is rudder required for coordinated turns?
mike regish wrote: Yes. The rudder pedals move with aileron control inputs. And yes, they can be moved independently of the ailerons due to the spring configuration. It makes slipping down final in a crosswind a little more difficult since you have the usual control forces due to aerodynamic pressure plus the pressure applied by the springs. That's why I prefer to crab down final and straighten out just before the wheels touch down. That's also easier on the passengers. A J-3 is a Piper Cub. That takes me way back to sideslipping DH82's when rudder was used in bucketfulls :-) |
#25
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Is rudder required for coordinated turns?
Bob Moore writes:
All swept wing airliners that I am familiar with (Boeings) have a full time yaw damper that keeps the rudder where it belongs at all times. The airplanes make perfectly coordinated turns with one's feet flat on the floor. :-) I thought a yaw damper was just intended to prevent dutch roll. At least on the 737-800, the yaw damper can be turned on or off at pilot discretion. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#26
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Is rudder required for coordinated turns?
Marc,
because even on level flight the ball in the inclinometer is hard to keep in place. Have you compared realism settings yet? Also, in the bigger aircraft, the ball will move less. Incidentally, speaking of input devices, do any people here who use a yoke* and who also actually fly think the yoke is more realistic (and therefore worth the price tag) than the joystick? As long as the yoke also has engine controls, I'd say yes, it's worth it. -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#27
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Is rudder required for coordinated turns?
On 2006-09-19, Mxsmanic wrote:
Is it always necessary to use the rudder to execute a coordinated turn? It depends on the aircraft. In something like a Piper Arrow, virtually no rudder is required for the kind of gentle turns you might do when flying IFR - you can practically fly it with your feet on the floor. At the other extreme is something like most gliders which need significant rudder input when initiating a turn. Somewhere in between are aircraft such as the Cessna 140, which needs some rudder when initiating any turn, but not boot loads of rudder. -- Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid. Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de |
#28
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Is rudder required for coordinated turns?
Mxsmanic wrote
At least on the 737-800, the yaw damper can be turned on or off at pilot discretion. Turned ON and OFF...Yes, but hardly at the pilot's discretion. I have no 737 experience, but the 727 has 2 rudders and 2 yaw dampers. If just one of them fails, the pilot must descend below 30,000' and slow to a specified maximum speed, just in case the other one should fail also. Bob Moore |
#29
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Is rudder required for coordinated turns?
Robert M. Gary wrote:
It depends on the plane. High performance planes almost always have rudder interconnect. Planes like Arrows, Mooneys, Bonanzas, etc My Beech Sundowner has an interconnect, but you still need a tad of input. I'm pretty sure Arrows don't have an interconnect, but I only know about the standard version, not the T-tail. |
#30
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Is rudder required for coordinated turns?
Peter Duniho wrote:
In addition, many airplanes are designed with Frise type ailerons, which also reduce adverse yaw by creating extra drag on the up-deflected aileron (to balance the drag on the down-deflected one). Pete Is this the same as "differential" ailerons, more "up" travel than "down"? |
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