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Sad Accident over Deland



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 27th 05, 10:06 AM
Dylan Smith
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In article , Dale wrote:
with a cabin roof. A jump plane will probably be descending steeply,
especially a turbine powered airplane. A jumper descends even steeper
than the aircraft does.


With the exception of certain Pilatus models, which can overtake the
jumpers whilst they are in freefall!

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"
  #22  
Old April 27th 05, 02:13 PM
Dudley Henriques
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Sometimes I wonder about it.

I spent hours and hours and hours in hard practice getting as absolutely
sharp as I could be. Hell, at one time in my career I could slow roll an
airplane with an altimeter needle pinned on an entry altitude and not have
the needle move off the entry number through 180 degrees of roll. (the last
180 requires the nose to be lowered back to level flight :-)
In fact, my rule for low altitude work was that if I couldn't do five of
these in a row without blowing one on the low side, I'd start over again
until I got it right!
After all that........and the rest of what made up my being as sharp as I
had to be to work airplanes in the venue I did, I can sit here today after
all of it is said and done and tell you for an absolute certainty that if it
wasn't for some unknown element of sheer luck, I probably wouldn't have made
it through and survived.
It's funny about things like this. Kind of puts things in perspective for
the overconfident among us doesn't it????????? :-)))))
Dudley

"Roger" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 17:46:21 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
dhenriques@noware .net wrote:

snip

Even Notams don't work sometimes.

I remember like it was yesterday; standing at the Blues Com Trailer with
John Patton of the Blue Angels at the Reading Show in 74. Tony Less took
the
Diamond straight up for the Diamond Loop. Both Patton and I saw the
Cherokee
140 at the same time. John had a hot mike in his had and direct contact
with
Tony in Blue 1. The formation went right past the Cherokee before either
of
us could speak. We discovered in the post flight brief that none of the
team
saw the Cherokee, and to this day, I honestly believe the pilot in the
Cherokee must have seen the team go by him. We judged he was close enough
that his pants were stained when he landed at where ever he was headed.
There are NOTAMS issued on the Blues performance times, and the field is
closed for traffic during demonstrations. We checked. All the NOTAMS were
intact. The times were correct. The guy in the Cherokee didn't read the
NOTAMS and wasn't advised either. He simply wandered in and flew right
through the restricted airspace unannounced and uninvited.
It happens!!!!


Now that is scary!
There is always at least one who never gets the notification.

Last spring we had a pancake breakfast. (OK, last spring or the one
before) and it was a pretty good turn out. Lots of planes.

They received a call up in the terminal building that such and such a
Cherokee pilot should call the tower over at MBS. Seems as the guy
went merrily chugging right through their airspace about a 1000 AGL
right in front of an airliner who had to take evasive action and go
around. To say they weren't happy would be an understatement.

Last Fall before the elections the President was going to be in
Saginaw. There was a TFR in place (centered on MBS) and well
advertised. We knew about it nearly a week ahead. Actually we were
just one mile outside the no fly zone so we could go straight out, or
straight back home while talking to ATC.

Pilot: Ahhhh... MBS Approach, I have a jet off my wing tip. What does
that mean? What's going on?
MBS: unintelligible
Pilot: Do you want me to land?
(The pres was due in about 15 minutes. No they did not want him to
land!)
I'll be contacted at harbor Beach? Who should I call?
(I doubt he had to call any one as the big blue State Police cars were
probably waiting for him)

Of course there was the time a year or so back an airliner flew right
through our down wind leg for 24 slightly below pattern altitude which
is 1000 AGL.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)




  #23  
Old April 27th 05, 02:35 PM
Chris Ehlbeck
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I had the briefer tell me of skydiving operations ONCE while an "official"
student on my long cross country. I knew of the operations at the airport
and additionally had informed the briefer I was a student pilot. He went so
far as to advise I'd probably still be with Atlanta approach at that point
and should here the calls before jumpers. He was right. I heard them on
both approach and the airport's CTAF. I've flown the same route since but
didn't get the information. I think I got it the first time only because I
said I was a student and the briefer was being helpful. But Dave is right.
If there are authorized or recognized skydiving operations it's on the chart
and in the AFD. It's even still in the AFD for airports where the DZ has
been closed for several years!

But what happened at Deland seems to be an unfortunate accident. They
happen, sadly.
--
Chris Ehlbeck, PP-ASEL
"It's a license to learn, have fun and buy really expensive hamburgers."

"Dave S" wrote in message
ink.net...
Once its on the chart, and in the green book, its no longer on the
NOTAM. Its not the briefers job. Its the pilots. IF you flight follow
and are on approach's frequency, you WILL hear "One minute to jumpers"
and "Jumpers away" for the applicable areas. The jump plane is required
to notify the responsible approach/center for the area at those times.

I am acutely aware of several active and former dropzones near me. Two
are at private fields, and the other two are on public airports.

Dave

Jay Honeck wrote:
Of course, FARs* require pilots to obtain _ALL_ available information
before flight. Given today's pop-up Temporary Flight Restrictions,


it

is even more important to check NOTAMs during the preflight briefing.
The FSS briefer or DUATS should have issued the NOTAM related to the
parachute activity. And if ATC is providing Radar Advisory Service,
the controller providing traffic advisories would have warned of the
hot drop zone.



Well, the FSS flight briefer I spoke with was located somewhere in
Northern Georgia, where we had gotten gas. He never mentioned anything
about skydiving activity.

And we used VFR flight following all the way. ATC never mentioned
anything about skydiving, either.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"




  #24  
Old April 27th 05, 02:38 PM
Chris Ehlbeck
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Might you be referring to a Porter? I've been on a few jump flights with a
guy who could do some amazing things with it.
--
Chris Ehlbeck, PP-ASEL
"It's a license to learn, have fun and buy really expensive hamburgers."

"Dylan Smith" wrote in message
...

With the exception of certain Pilatus models, which can overtake the
jumpers whilst they are in freefall!

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"



  #25  
Old April 27th 05, 02:45 PM
OtisWinslow
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"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On 26 Apr 2005 11:08:21 -0700, "Jay Honeck" wrote
in .com::

The FSS briefer or DUATS should have issued the NOTAM related to the
parachute activity.


I've never gotten a NOTAM on jumpers and I fly out of an airport with a
jump club that goes constantly. You can't rely on NOTAMS at all. I listen
to the radar controller for the over lying airspace and to the CTAF. At any
airport that I'm around that shows jump activity I do the same. Talk to the
jump plane and make sure he/she know where you're at and you know where
they are and what altitude and when they're throwing them out. It's a matter
of coordinating your pattern, or doing a 360 or two, until they get down.

I can't think of any excuse for a jump plane to be below his jumpers, no
matter how much other jump pilots justify it. The jumpers have the right
of way. It's careless/reckless operation and most likely negligent homicide.



  #27  
Old April 27th 05, 04:57 PM
Dale
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In article ,
Dylan Smith wrote:



With the exception of certain Pilatus models, which can overtake the
jumpers whilst they are in freefall!


Only for a short period early in the skydive. At altitudes where a
jumper is normally under canopy you won't see them going straight
down...at least not more than once.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html
  #28  
Old April 27th 05, 05:03 PM
Dale
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In article ,
"OtisWinslow" wrote:



I can't think of any excuse for a jump plane to be below his jumpers, no
matter how much other jump pilots justify it. The jumpers have the right
of way. It's careless/reckless operation and most likely negligent homicide.


Again, that's because you don't work in the environment. Get some
exposure to it, you'll find that it is done everyday and is quite safe.

If two airplanes collide in the pattern do you think that is
careless/reckless? Perhaps we should regulate so that only 1 aircraft
is allowed in the pattern at a time.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html
  #29  
Old April 27th 05, 08:14 PM
OtisWinslow
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"Dale" wrote in message
...
In article ,

Again, that's because you don't work in the environment. Get some
exposure to it, you'll find that it is done everyday and is quite safe.


I fly in that environment. There's a very active jump club at our
airport. I deal with it every nice day I fly and have for a long time.
If it's safe why in the world did he fly into the jumper? Keep the
jumpers below the airplane and you don't have an issue. They don't
always land or approach where you think they will. Anything within 1/2
mile of the drop target should be suspect.


If two airplanes collide in the pattern do you think that is
careless/reckless?


Absolutely.


  #30  
Old April 28th 05, 12:57 AM
John Clear
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In article ,
Dylan Smith wrote:
In article , Dale wrote:
with a cabin roof. A jump plane will probably be descending steeply,
especially a turbine powered airplane. A jumper descends even steeper
than the aircraft does.


With the exception of certain Pilatus models, which can overtake the
jumpers whilst they are in freefall!


There is a video somewhere on the net of a jumper stepping out of a
Porter, freefalling, and then joining up with the plane again and climbing back in.

I'll let someone else do the google magic.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

 




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