Chilling tale by Dick Rutan

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...

Well, maybe to count as a death in Vietnam combat you actually had to
get there first! I know that's a nit-pick, but it is certainly a
consideration.

I'm pretty sure that the account is a first-person perspective from
Dick. He was a Misty and was certainly there at the time. Will have to
ask him next year at River Rats--he's a regular attendee.

As is Don Hartnett who was on one of those BUFFs, survived the mid-air
and was rescued by an SA-16 from the S. China Sea, only to have the
Albatross crash on takeoff, requiring another rescue. Don survived
that one as well and then went on to become an F-105 Wild Weasel Bear.
Gotta say he's a glutton for punishment. He makes it to the reunion
every year.


Ed Rasimus

Ed,

It's Don Harten (Kenneth D.) and I was at Takhli with him where he was an
F-105 strike pilot. Later he went back to Takhli as a pilot in F-111s.

I'm sure Dick, whom I met why he was planning the Voyager project, wrote the
account (It is also in "Misty") not knowing about the earlier death. It
just bothered me that it wasn't true. I admire both Dick and Don.

Regards,

Tex Houston

Ed Rasimus wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 15:53:39 GMT, Ed Rasimus
wrote:


As is Don Hartnett who was on one of those BUFFs,

Harten. That was Don Harten. They say the memory is the second thing
to go...forgot what's first.
Ed Rasimus

IIRC forgetfulness is a good way to not remember
things like anniversary's etc.
The two accounts emerging about the General's
death are different, would the OP's account of
D. Rutans statement be a fabrication?
I'm a bit confused.
Ken

Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in message
oups.com...

Ed Rasimus wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 15:53:39 GMT, Ed Rasimus
wrote:


As is Don Hartnett who was on one of those BUFFs,

Harten. That was Don Harten. They say the memory is the second thing
to go...forgot what's first.
Ed Rasimus

IIRC forgetfulness is a good way to not remember
things like anniversary's etc.
The two accounts emerging about the General's
death are different, would the OP's account of
D. Rutans statement be a fabrication?
I'm a bit confused.
Ken

Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)


Ken,

Two different incidents. Notice the difference in names?

July 7, 1967 MajGen William J. Crumm (KIA)

July 23, 1968 MajGen Robert Worley (KIA)

Regards,

Tex Houston

"W. D. Allen" wrote:

A really compelling story! Could it have been that with fire under the front
cockpit deck when the rear seater ejected the airflow around the aft cockpit
caused the flames to be sucked up through the front cockpit?

WDA

That's what it sounds like to me too.

This is an interesting story but there's something which I don't
follow, perhaps some of you who are more familiar with fighters
could comment.

This following quote doesn't make sense to me:
My God ! " I screamed. " What doesn't he eject ? How can he just sit
there? What in the hell is wrong? Then I figured it out. It became
obvious that we were too far away ( route formation ) and he couldn't
hear me.

So I drove the Hun right up next to the burning cockpit and continue
calling, " Strobe 01 ! Bail out ! BAIL OUT ! " this time with more
desperation in my screams. Harland calls, " Oh my God ! Look at it
burn ! "

In desperation, I drive closer, so close that the air pressure between
the two aircraft causes the fiery ball to roll into a 30 degree bank,
turning toward the right. As I pulled away, he rolled back wings
level, now pointed directly at the beach in a slightly steeper
descent.


While I know very little about fighter a/c I know a lot about
VHF/UHF radios used in aircraft and I cannot imagine how this
could happen...

--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

In article ,
Gord Beaman wrote:

"W. D. Allen" wrote:

A really compelling story! Could it have been that with fire under the front
cockpit deck when the rear seater ejected the airflow around the aft cockpit
caused the flames to be sucked up through the front cockpit?

WDA

That's what it sounds like to me too.

This is an interesting story but there's something which I don't
follow, perhaps some of you who are more familiar with fighters
could comment.

This following quote doesn't make sense to me:
My God ! " I screamed. " What doesn't he eject ? How can he just sit
there? What in the hell is wrong? Then I figured it out. It became
obvious that we were too far away ( route formation ) and he couldn't
hear me.

So I drove the Hun right up next to the burning cockpit and continue
calling, " Strobe 01 ! Bail out ! BAIL OUT ! " this time with more
desperation in my screams. Harland calls, " Oh my God ! Look at it
burn ! "

In desperation, I drive closer, so close that the air pressure between
the two aircraft causes the fiery ball to roll into a 30 degree bank,
turning toward the right. As I pulled away, he rolled back wings
level, now pointed directly at the beach in a slightly steeper
descent.


While I know very little about fighter a/c I know a lot about
VHF/UHF radios used in aircraft and I cannot imagine how this
could happen...

If you mean the statement: "were too far away (route formation) and he
couldn't hear me." I understood that as just what he was thinking at
the time under the pressure of the incident.

I was once responding to an aircraft that had spun in and was burning.
The ground controller kept saying to the responding crash unit, "Hurry
Ramp Captain, hurry!" even though all of us were going as fast as we
reasonably could. It was probably very frustrating to watch what you
know is someones death and be powerless to do anything about it.

Dale wrote:

In article ,
Gord Beaman wrote:

"W. D. Allen" wrote:

A really compelling story! Could it have been that with fire under the front
cockpit deck when the rear seater ejected the airflow around the aft cockpit
caused the flames to be sucked up through the front cockpit?

WDA

That's what it sounds like to me too.

This is an interesting story but there's something which I don't
follow, perhaps some of you who are more familiar with fighters
could comment.

This following quote doesn't make sense to me:
My God ! " I screamed. " What doesn't he eject ? How can he just sit
there? What in the hell is wrong? Then I figured it out. It became
obvious that we were too far away ( route formation ) and he couldn't
hear me.

So I drove the Hun right up next to the burning cockpit and continue
calling, " Strobe 01 ! Bail out ! BAIL OUT ! " this time with more
desperation in my screams. Harland calls, " Oh my God ! Look at it
burn ! "

In desperation, I drive closer, so close that the air pressure between
the two aircraft causes the fiery ball to roll into a 30 degree bank,
turning toward the right. As I pulled away, he rolled back wings
level, now pointed directly at the beach in a slightly steeper
descent.


While I know very little about fighter a/c I know a lot about
VHF/UHF radios used in aircraft and I cannot imagine how this
could happen...

If you mean the statement: "were too far away (route formation) and he
couldn't hear me." I understood that as just what he was thinking at
the time under the pressure of the incident.

I was once responding to an aircraft that had spun in and was burning.
The ground controller kept saying to the responding crash unit, "Hurry
Ramp Captain, hurry!" even though all of us were going as fast as we
reasonably could. It was probably very frustrating to watch what you
know is someones death and be powerless to do anything about it.

Yes, I guess stress can do strange things to a person's common
sense.
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 11:21:07 -0600, "Tex Houston"
wrote:

I'm sure Dick, whom I met why he was planning the Voyager project, wrote the
account (It is also in "Misty") not knowing about the earlier death. It
just bothered me that it wasn't true. I admire both Dick and Don.

It is also in "Bury Us Upside Down", the new book by Don Sheppard and
Rick Newman. The RF-4C callsign is Strobe 10 in that version. There
is no mention of it being the only/first General to die in Vietnam.

--Rolf

Gord Beaman wrote in
:

"W. D. Allen" wrote:

A really compelling story! Could it have been that with fire under the
front cockpit deck when the rear seater ejected the airflow around the
aft cockpit caused the flames to be sucked up through the front cockpit?

WDA

That's what it sounds like to me too.

This is an interesting story but there's something which I don't
follow, perhaps some of you who are more familiar with fighters
could comment.

This following quote doesn't make sense to me:
My God ! " I screamed. " What doesn't he eject ? How can he just sit
there? What in the hell is wrong? Then I figured it out. It became
obvious that we were too far away ( route formation ) and he couldn't
hear me.

So I drove the Hun right up next to the burning cockpit and continue
calling, " Strobe 01 ! Bail out ! BAIL OUT ! " this time with more
desperation in my screams. Harland calls, " Oh my God ! Look at it
burn ! "

In desperation, I drive closer, so close that the air pressure between
the two aircraft causes the fiery ball to roll into a 30 degree bank,
turning toward the right. As I pulled away, he rolled back wings
level, now pointed directly at the beach in a slightly steeper
descent.


While I know very little about fighter a/c I know a lot about
VHF/UHF radios used in aircraft and I cannot imagine how this
could happen...

Distance means little when there is no radio to receive what is being
transmitted. The UHF radio in the F-4 resided under the back seat,
requiring removal of the seat bucket (and included rocket motor) for
maintenance, making it a huge PITA for the tweets and AMEs. Ejection
essentially kills the radio.

Dave in San Diego
AT1 USN (Ret)
Got to help change a radio one day

"588" wrote in message
.com...
W. D. Allen wrote:

A really compelling story! Could it have been that with fire under the
front
cockpit deck when the rear seater ejected the airflow around the aft
cockpit
caused the flames to be sucked up through the front cockpit?

Clearly so.

A fighter-pilot General he may have been and a significant loss to
that community, but it is worth noting that respect for the
Company-grade basics may have brought him home with his back-seater
instead of incinerating him where he sat. In the cockpit, a little
more thought about what fire does can be far more useful than all
the nicer aspects of Generalship.

I wish I had a copy of Dick Rutan's original unedited tape. ;


Jack


why would a "fighter pilot General" be debating a point that
was (in terms of task prioritization) largely ridiculously
irrelevant, given the situation at hand ?

"He said the General did not want to eject and argued about the
position of the command ejection handle in the rear cockpit. The
Major, upholding his duties, wanted it in the Command position ( the
guy in back Command ejects the front.)

But the General outranked him and ordered him to leave it in the OFF
position, thereby making each seat a single-initiated ejection".

Moe wrote:
But the General outranked him and ordered him to leave it in the OFF
position, thereby making each seat a single-initiated ejection".

So, in a debate regarding flight safety, who is supposed to have the
last word, the PIC or the ranking officer?

--
St. John
There is no satisfaction in hanging a man who does not object to it
-G. B. Shaw