TCAD Installations in Gliders?

Eric,
The Proxalert R5 does have an internal buzzer so no need for an extra
external speaker and amplifier.
If you pre-order before Nov 15th, 2003 you get our introductory price
of 1195 USD?
Thanks for your feedback concerning our website.

Regards,

Eric Greenwell wrote in message ...
In article ,
says...
Hello,
At 13.8v the ProXalert R5 device needs only ONE watt compared to
nearly 5 watts for the Trafficscope(c). It displays up to three
threats including squawk, altitude and distance. It also features a
built in altitude alerter.
It will be available mid November. See our Website
www.proxalert.com

It's an interesting unit. The low power is ideal for gliders, but the
lack of a speaker is a problem. We don't use headsets most of the
time, so we'd need to add a speaker with an amplifier to the glider.
The price ($1500) is also quite high for most glider pilots.

A web site suggestion: this text blinks in a very annoying fashion
when I use Netscape 7.0 --

"World first affordable aircraft proximity alerter
displaying threat aircraft altitude, distance and squawk !"

I'd suggest removing the blink code from the html text. For some
reason, the blink code doesn't make it blink in IE 6. The menus also
seem to load very slowly in both browsers.

How about the original Mark One Eyeball - most folk
have two inbuilt units and they provide a damn sure
fire way to avoid a collision.

LOOKOUT!

Gav


At 10:48 19 October 2003, Thierry wrote:
Hello,
At 13.8v the ProXalert R5 device needs only ONE watt
compared to
nearly 5 watts for the Trafficscope(c). It displays
up to three
threats including squawk, altitude and distance. It
also features a
built in altitude alerter.
It will be available mid November. See our Website

www.proxalert.com

Have safe flight,

Regards,


'John Morgan' wrote in message news:...
'Eric Greenwell' wrote in message
http://www.ryan-tcad.com/products/traffic_9900B.html

It's the only TCAD system I'm aware of.


Eric ('n all),

There's also 'Skywatch', I think by BF Goodrich. Same
problem though,
expensive and consumes too much power for a glider.
What would be *really*
good is if they came out with a portable ADS-B for
cheap! But since that
won't happen soon - or ever, the only game left I'm
aware of is passive
transponder detectors . . . and these have gotten
mixed reviews until just
recently. The following is cut from a post on the
Mooney tech group:

'Just got my TrafficScope TPAS VRX from Surecheck
last week and
had a chance to fly with it.
Absolutely a first-rate product!!! Much, much better/different
than the earlier TPAS RX-110 version.

http://www.surecheck.net . . .'

The problem with previous passive detectors is they
were based on signal
strength only, no bearing or altitude info. That,
and some users experienced
a lot of falses. The new version mentioned above still
doesn't give bearing,
but it *does* give altitude of the target and since
it decodes this info,
can eliminate much of the falsing, alerts from overhead
airliners etc.

I have no connection with the above company and don't
have one of these
things to play with - yet. At $1200 . . . figured
I'd wait some until there
are more happy customers.
--
bumper - ZZ
'Dare to be different . . . circle in sink.'
to reply, the last half is right to left





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"Gavin Goudie" wrote in message
...
How about the original Mark One Eyeball - most folk
have two inbuilt units and they provide a damn sure
fire way to avoid a collision.

LOOKOUT!

Gav


"Damn sure fire way to avoid a collision" might be true if they were only
hooked up to something with a better processor than the Mark One Brain. Even
so, they can only cover a relatively small portion of the potential threat
area at a time as they are the predator, forward looking binocular vision
version (instead of the more preferred, side-mounted prey version). From the
accident stats, "see and avoid" and "big sky principal" are anything but
damn sure.

"LOOKOUT!" is good advice, the best tool we all have, but it ain't the
be-all-end-all . . . if it were, deer wouldn't need ears.
--
bumper - ZZ
"Dare to be different . . . circle in sink."
to reply, the last half is right to left


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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 10/9/2003

In article ,
says...
Eric,
The Proxalert R5 does have an internal buzzer so no need for an extra
external speaker and amplifier.

Good - that makes it compatible with a glider!

If you pre-order before Nov 15th, 2003 you get our introductory price
of 1195 USD?

A more interesting price! However, USA pilots are cautious bunch, and
those that are interested will still wait until it is available from a
US dealer and can be easily returned if it is not satisfactory. This
is not your fault, but because some of the earlier units (TPAS, etc)
did not work as well as claimed.

Also, because it is a new company, others will wait they hear from
pilots that have tried one, or read a review in a magazine or on-line
somewhere. I hope the reviews are good, because some areas of our
country where gliders fly have plenty of traffic. The low power and
the "L" shaped mounting will let it fit into most gliders.


--
!Replace DECIMAL.POINT in my e-mail address with just a . to reply
directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)

Gavin Goudie wrote in message ...
How about the original Mark One Eyeball - most folk
have two inbuilt units and they provide a damn sure
fire way to avoid a collision.

LOOKOUT!

Gav

Most of the time, the Mk 1 Mod 0 Eyeball works fine - IF you can look
in the direction of the threat. Fine during thermalling (plus you are
easy to see, assuming the other guy is also looking out...). But
during long glides between thermals, you CANNOT SEE the threat running
you down from behind. I would love to have a traffic warning device -
and a transponder - but havn't found anything yet that I can afford
(yet).

Then there is the problem of all the neat gadgets in the cockpit now:
Glide computers, PDA's with moving maps, handheld GPS's. Real easy to
spend way too much time heads down; so the admonition to LOOKOUT! is
still absolutely valid!

I guess a lot depends on where, what, and how you fly. Hanging around
the gliderport in the house thermal, the biggest threat is the student
in the same thermal staring at his variometer. Flying XC in the
western US (or Oz, etc) my biggest fear is some doctor in his Baron
hitting me from behind. Of course, as long as I keep my cruise speed
up, I can eliminate the threat from most Cessnas and Pipers!

Kirk
LS6-b "66"

"Jim Kellett" wrote in message et...
Just curious - anyone ever heard of a US glider with a TCAD (such as Ryan's
8800 Gold) installed? Love to get a "user's report" if so . . .

Jim Kellett, Resident Curmudgeon
Chief Flight Instructor, Skyline Soaring Club
Captain and CFI(G), Civil Air Patrol
Chairman, Classic Division, Vintage Sailplane Association
Webmaster, Open Cirrus Website
"If Flying Were the Language of Man, Soaring Would be its Poetry"

Having used a Ryan TCAD for a few years, then upgrading to TCAS, I
would say that TCAD is not very reliable. Rather than looking at the
display, wondering where the target really is, better to be looking
out the window. If you're anywhere near busy airspace, the display
will get very cluttered & hard to interpret, and your head is down &
locked while you look. Never tried thermalling with one, but im sure
it would be useless while circling.
I still remember the guy in the 102 at Truckee who got knocked from
the sky by an Aerostar (I think) who just departed & was head down &
locked programming his GPS. The glider pilot lived in spite of not
wearing a chute.
WIthout transponders, nobody else can see gliders, & lots of em
(Al)are flying around looking at
their...PDA/L-nav/S-nav/varios/GPS/MP3/etc. ad-nauseum.
Turn it all off & look out the window!
My o2 cents worth.
-Dan

Kirk Stant wrote:
...
Most of the time, the Mk 1 Mod 0 Eyeball works fine - IF you can look
in the direction of the threat. Fine during thermalling (plus you are
easy to see, assuming the other guy is also looking out...). But
during long glides between thermals, you CANNOT SEE the threat running
you down from behind.
...

Yes, I remember a huge glider (well, only 15 m, but so close it seemed
really huge) coming just above my head during such a glide, because
it left the same slope as myself just a few seconds after me, just a
few meters higher and flew just a little faster than me. None of us
could see the other glider just up to this moment.

But there is a simple device that could help in this case, which is
fitted in most motor gliders with a retracting prop: a small rear
facing mirror. I wonder why we don't have such a mirror on every glider.

At Proxalert our TCAD definition is : See what you can't see.

Once properly set you simply forget it until the unit will alert you
someone is around close to your altitude. Our device extract the
threat altitude from the threat reply. Our unit also provide a
tendancy information (threat climbing, descending from below or above
your own altitude).

I agree previous generation affordable device were unable to filter
out traffic flying 20,000 ft above. This is no more the case.

Obviously no TCAD, TCAS or even sharp eyes will ever be 100% sure. So
sometime this little percentage these devices add will help save your
and other lifes.

Furthermore as most gliders don't 'wear' any transponder nobody see
you and the collision risk is even higher.

Expensive : Assuming a 1000 hours life span it will add a dollar (Our
beer back earth ) or so to get this additional extra help.

Regards

Terry

See us at www.proxalert.com

(Buck Wild) wrote in message . com...
"Jim Kellett" wrote in message et...
Just curious - anyone ever heard of a US glider with a TCAD (such as Ryan's
8800 Gold) installed? Love to get a "user's report" if so . . .

Jim Kellett, Resident Curmudgeon
Chief Flight Instructor, Skyline Soaring Club
Captain and CFI(G), Civil Air Patrol
Chairman, Classic Division, Vintage Sailplane Association
Webmaster, Open Cirrus Website
"If Flying Were the Language of Man, Soaring Would be its Poetry"

Having used a Ryan TCAD for a few years, then upgrading to TCAS, I
would say that TCAD is not very reliable. Rather than looking at the
display, wondering where the target really is, better to be looking
out the window. If you're anywhere near busy airspace, the display
will get very cluttered & hard to interpret, and your head is down &
locked while you look. Never tried thermalling with one, but im sure
it would be useless while circling.
I still remember the guy in the 102 at Truckee who got knocked from
the sky by an Aerostar (I think) who just departed & was head down &
locked programming his GPS. The glider pilot lived in spite of not
wearing a chute.
WIthout transponders, nobody else can see gliders, & lots of em
(Al)are flying around looking at
their...PDA/L-nav/S-nav/varios/GPS/MP3/etc. ad-nauseum.
Turn it all off & look out the window!
My o2 cents worth.
-Dan

In article ,
says...
Yes, I remember a huge glider (well, only 15 m, but so close it seemed
really huge) coming just above my head during such a glide, because
it left the same slope as myself just a few seconds after me, just a
few meters higher and flew just a little faster than me. None of us
could see the other glider just up to this moment.

But there is a simple device that could help in this case, which is
fitted in most motor gliders with a retracting prop: a small rear
facing mirror. I wonder why we don't have such a mirror on every glider.

I've tried mirrors several times over the past 20 years, but haven't
been able to find one that showed a wide enough view and still had a
big enough image of the glider I was trying to see. Perhaps one that
simply showed only what was above and a little behind would work for
the situation you describe, but I think it would frequently be
reflecting the sun into your eyes. The one on my motorglider certainly
does, unless I tip it down.

--
!Replace DECIMAL.POINT in my e-mail address with just a . to reply
directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)

"Kirk Stant" wrote in message
om...
Most of the time, the Mk 1 Mod 0 Eyeball works fine - IF you can look in the
direction of the threat. Fine during thermalling (plus you are easy to see,
assuming the other guy is also looking out...). . . .
__________________________________________________ __________________________
________

Some background on the original question . . . Between 1982 and 2003, there
were, according to the NTSB, ca. 400 MACs in the United States, of which 18
involved gliders, of which 10 - count'em - ten - were glider/glider in a
thermal!* There were others that were not reported.** Two more were
glider/glider in the pattern. We're not doing such a good job of
see-and-avoid even in the situation(s) where see-and-avoid is the ONLY
practical way to avoid a MAC. B U T . . . .

The ORIGINAL question, about TPAS/TCAD, was focussed on trying to get a
better grip on the risk of MACs which are not all that obvious from the
historical record, but which loom menacingly over the horizon - e.g., with
an airliner (TCAS equipped) or other large (transponder equipped) airplane
(or, in the latter case, maybe even a glider). These are instances where
see-and-avoid is not really working and is not going to work (e.g., the
airliner coming up on your six, which HAS led to NMACs.). There's a growing
list of anecdotally reported MACs between airliners and/or military aircraft
and gliders.

So, anyone know of a pilot who's actually installed or used a TCAD unit in a
glider? (Or a TPAS, for that matter . . .)

Jim Kellett, Resident Curmudgeon
Chief Flight Instructor, Skyline Soaring Club
Captain and CFI(G), Civil Air Patrol
Chairman, Classic Division, Vintage Sailplane Association
Webmaster, Open Cirrus Website
"If Flying Were the Language of Man, Soaring Would be its Poetry"



* Query on the downloaded NTSB accident database.
** Personal communication