Letter to the FAA

I'll ask again...why isn't the Soaring Safety Foundation taking the lead on this issue? I find it perplexing.

Paul A.

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 3:54:47 PM UTC-6, Paul Agnew wrote:
I'll ask again...why isn't the Soaring Safety Foundation taking the lead on this issue? I find it perplexing.

Paul A.

How many deaths, accidents or injuries have been recorded due to the Schweizer tow release over the past 60 years? A substantial number would probably initiate some concern.


Mike

The obvious right answer here is for the FAA to expedite the paperwork to replace Schweitzer hooks with Tost hooks. I'm not an expert, but it would seem that a letter from headquarters to field offices saying, if there is a legal Schweitzer hook in place, accept a 337 to replace it with Tost. Why not write a letter asking for that positive step? Dear FAA. There is a safety problem. There is a solution. Your paperwork is what makes it hard for people to solve the problem. Please fix.

Or am I, of all people, being incredibly naive about FAA regulatory inertia?

John Cochrane

So who wants to take the lead and show that soaring can manage this risk intelligently?
Statistics show we are doing OK managing the known failure mode of Elmira Death Hooks. Before anyone gets the vapors over 'known failure mode' remember everything that moves has a known failure mode of some sort. How about we write a letter to the FAA asking them to ban low altitude skidding turns? That'd spare some blood. Or we could go for the really low hanging fruit and get the gov to mandate seat belts and helmet use in our golf carts. Golf carts kill more people in a year than Elmira Death Hooks have ever. Which brings up a funny for the happy gov't regulation folks. If you have juniors working your line, know it is illegal in some states for those under 18 to operate a golf cart. Ain't safety mandated by law great?

I searched using terms like reusable, high load, quick release, and found an interesting product called the "Sea Catch TR5".

Not cheap, there are other models at different capacities and price. The TR5 max load is 1.66 tons and at max load, release pull is 30 lbs. Cost is $425, so not exactly cheap, but have you priced a release hook lately?

Of course it's not tested or approved either.

http://www.seacatch.com/tr5refurb-after.jpg

On Friday, June 23, 2017 at 1:27:08 AM UTC-4, bumper wrote:
I searched using terms like reusable, high load, quick release, and found an interesting product called the "Sea Catch TR5".

Not cheap, there are other models at different capacities and price. The TR5 max load is 1.66 tons and at max load, release pull is 30 lbs. Cost is $425, so not exactly cheap, but have you priced a release hook lately?

Of course it's not tested or approved either.

http://www.seacatch.com/tr5refurb-after.jpg

Three ring releases are brilliant and cheap. Not approved and could easily be hooked up wrong by the untrained. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-ring_release_system Long history of working when it has to.

Originally Posted by Bruce Hoult

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 3:43:08 PM UTC+3, Walt Connelly wrote:
Retting;949394 Wrote:
Step away from this Walter. Establish your own limitation, what you will
accept.
Allow others the same. Trust me on this.

Romeo

Romeo, Romeo....

I have already stepped further away than I have wanted to but trust
ME on this. If YOU had found yourself 300 feet in the air dangling from
a tow rope attached to a glider and unable to release while at full
power headed right to the dirt YOU WOULD BE ON MY SIDE IN SPADES.
PERIOD, END OF STORY.

We're on your side. And on the side of other tow pilots hauling our arses into the air.

If all tow pilots at an organisation refuse to tow with Schweizer hooks then they'll get replaced pretty quickly.

I have received many responses both public and private from tow pilots who agree with my position. Unfortunately many of them say they need the few bucks they make flying tow to make ends meet. I understand and fortunately I did not need the money. Any tow pilot towing with a Schweizer hook AND a handle that is not immediately available for release is playing Russian roulette. Sure, the chances of it happening are low but tell that to the guy at Turf whose accident and death initiated the inverted hook long, long ago.

Walt

Originally Posted by John Cochrane[_3_]

The obvious right answer here is for the FAA to expedite the paperwork to replace Schweitzer hooks with Tost hooks. I'm not an expert, but it would seem that a letter from headquarters to field offices saying, if there is a legal Schweitzer hook in place, accept a 337 to replace it with Tost. Why not write a letter asking for that positive step? Dear FAA. There is a safety problem. There is a solution. Your paperwork is what makes it hard for people to solve the problem. Please fix.

Or am I, of all people, being incredibly naive about FAA regulatory inertia?

John Cochrane

I'm no expert either John and I am trying to write this letter with the purpose of limiting the negative effect it might have on the sport. I try to ignore the flippant, blasé, self serving responses and give thought to some of the more intelligent suggestions. The one thing I am NOT willing to do is let this go. I have learned much in my analysis and have much more to do. You are right, paperwork is often the problem.

The obvious answer is for the SSA and SSF to step forward and take charge of this situation, my contact with them proves that they have no intention of doing so. The British Gliding Association did so long, long ago. While accidents still happen their mandates at least give the tow pilot a fighting chance when he needs it most.

Question: Are you the Economist? If so I read your blog and papers on occasion.

Walt

Originally Posted by Paul Agnew

I'll ask again...why isn't the Soaring Safety Foundation taking the lead on this issue? I find it perplexing.

Paul A.

Paul,

The SSA made their position crystal clear to me thru their government liaison representative. I'm not a member of the club.....

Walt

How many unreported and undocumented near tragedies have been averted at the last minute?

We tend to hide our mishaps and shrug them off as singular events, but Walt had two in the same week! Even so, we all seem to want him to count his blessings and forget about it rather than recognize a possible harbinger of a major safety issue that should be carefully reviewed.

Paul A.