single pilot ifr trip tonight

On 4 Nov 2003 12:16:24 -0800, (Michael) wrote:

(Snowbird) wrote
I don't think this point really ought to be argued. If you take
two pilots of equal, exquisite skill, both fully capable of plane
control at a near automatic level, which is going to have a better
grasp of the "big picture" when something significant changes
enroute? The guy who had to handfly the whole time, or the guy who
was able to turn the plane over to "George" for a few while he
processed the changes?

I'll bet money on the latter, every time. And that's the point of
this "value the autopilot" mantra.

Let's fast forward a couple of years. One of the pilots made it a
point to hand fly in IMC all the time. The other one turned the plane
over to "George" for a few when he needed to process the changes. Who
is more proficient now? Who is better able to divide attention?

For any individual flight, you're right. But in the long run, letting
"George" do it means that certain skills just don't develop. All else
being equal, the guy with the autopilot has an edge (however slight) -
but in reality all else won't be equal.


Here we differ 180 degrees.
"George", is like GPS in that we use him most of the time, but we
still have to maintain those basic skills. We still have to practice
approaches and cross country by hand flying if we are to remain
proficient. Now, as to the guy who always hand fly...has he, or she
spent enough time using "George" to be proficient flying the different
phases of the trip using George?

An AP is great, but you just don't normally just turn it on off. Like
GPS you needed to be proficient at doing what ever you have to do to
get the thing in operation. Finding you are in a situation where you
need George is not the time to be turning the AP on.

Although far simpler than GPS you'd not want to be programming in a
bunch of way points while being bounced around, trying to intercept a
radial. Turning on the AP, getting the altitude stabilized before
turning on the altitude hold, and selecting the proper instrument to
slave can be almost as taxing.

BTW - for a while, I worked with a low time pilot (less than 300 hrs
TT) whose IFR skills, by his own admission, were gone. His airplane
was a Tiger. He had an autopilot. In the entire time we flew
together, it was on for just about 10 minutes - long enough for me to
ascertain that he knew how to use it and understood its quirks and
limitations.

By the time we were done, he was hand flying two hour night-IMC legs
while effectively communicating with ATC and carrying on a discussion
with me about the best way to avoid the worst of the weather being

I may have phrased this badly so to make it short in summary:

A complete pilot should be proficient at using all the instruments at
his disposal, but dependent on none.

Be proficient with GPS, but not to the point of dependency.
Be proficient with what every AP is available, but not dependent.
Keep an awareness of you location independently of the primary
instrumentation.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
painted by his Strikefinder. I think it took him a little over 10
hours to get to that point. A little long for an ICC, I admit. In
fact, I signed off his ICC about halfway through the process - once he
demonstrated that he met the applicable standards. We kept flying
because he was looking for more than a signature certifying he met
minimum standards - he was looking for true IFR proficiency.

Michael

Peter,

FWIW, in Germany, single pilot IFR is only legally allowed with an
autopilot with ALT hold.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

(Snowbird) wrote
Apples and oranges to the point I'm trying to make.

Not really. Not unless your point is that "George" remains idle 99.9%
of the time spent in IMC, and is only engaged on an emergency basis.

Instrument skills are a "lose 'em or use 'em" proposition,
there's no question. Someone who relies on George will
lose the ability to do routine things like:

Like dealing with routine IFR issues on his own?

All time is not created equal. You may spend two hours droning along
in stratus over the midwest, going direct to destination. That's two
hours of actual. Is it as much experience as an hour in and out of
bumpy cumulus with multiple reroutes? Well, that depends. If you
hand-fly it, then no - the hour hand-flying in bumps while copying,
reading back, verifying, and setting up radios for the new clearances
is a lot more experience, even though it's only half as much time and
a quarter of the actual. But not if you have "George" holding heading
and altitude for you.

My main objection to letting "George" do it is this - most of us are
just not getting that much actual experience. We need that experience
to develop our skills - the hood is not the same. It's silly to give
that experience away to a gadget.

But if the contention is no competent, IMC proficient pilot
ought to need an autopilot, my point is that when the autopilot
comes in really handy is when things aren't routine. When you're
flying outside familiar territory and are handed a major (or
maybe the 2nd or 3rd major) rerouting from ATC and you not
only need to process the route, you need to reassess the wx
and fuel pictures completely, esp. single pilot.

I guess I look at it differently. I consider what you're describing
routine. Major reroutes are a way of life when flying busy airspace -
I don't think I've ever made the Houston-New York run (which I've made
many times) without multiple major reroutes. I also don't recall ever
making that run without encountering significant weather. In fact,
the whole point of an instrument rating is going places. Unless
you've already seen it all, some of those places are going to be
unfamiliar.

God himself would do better handing the plane-handling
over to George for a bit and freeing up some extra brain
cycles to 'get the picture'.

In theory, there's no way to argue with that. It must take SOME
effort to fly the plane, and there is SOME limit to pilot capability.
In reality, I find that the cycles necessary to keep the plane upright
are minimal, and also that I'm not at my cycle limit flying IFR.

Further, I would argue that anyone who IS at task saturation flying
IFR is doing something very, very dangerous. After all, if it's
taking all you've got just to deal with the situation as it is
(aircraft control, ATC, navigation, weather) to the point that if you
don't have "George" fly while dealing with a reroute, you risk losing
the big picture, then what happens when you have a minor emergency?
Seriously? What happens when you're climbing out, night/IMC, being
rerouted - and your AI tumbles? What happens when you lift off, get a
positive rate, cycle the gear up, and as you're entering the soup the
lights dim and you smell smoke?

Michael

(Michael) wrote in message . com...
(Snowbird) wrote
Apples and oranges to the point I'm trying to make.

Not really. Not unless your point is that "George" remains idle 99.9%
of the time spent in IMC, and is only engaged on an emergency basis.

Absolutely not. If "George" remains idle 99.9% of the time, then
clearly the pilot has no business engaging George on an emergency
basis because he has not maintained his proficiency in the care
and feeding of "George". In an emergency KISS and stick to what's
familiar say I.

Can't tell at this point if you're not reading what I say,
or if I'm not adequately able to communicate what I mean, but
clearly communication isn't taking place so I'm outta here.

Cheers,
Sydney

I bought one of those shake it lights, but found the magnet inside it is strong
enough to swing the compass if the light was anywhere forward of the backs
of the front seats. No good for the airplane, and frankly not bright enough for
general use around the house.

rip wrote:

I carry 6 flashlights, and 4 of them have LED's instead of bulbs. LED's
last forever, and are shockproof. One of my flashlights doesn't even use
batteries. You shake it for about 30 seconds to get about 5 minutes of
light.



--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

I wouldn't have departed night with a known radio problem plus a dead flashlight

(I have no less than six flashlights in my plane and flight bag), plus in
conditions
you had never flown in. You had a series of additional radio failures which
indicates a possible electrical system problem. Was your alternator still
on-line?
Rather than waxing on about the great flight, I'd be thanking my lucky stars for
getting
back in one piece.

"Guy Elden Jr." wrote:

Just got back from a good proficiency practice flight. This was the first
time I'd flown single pilot IFR at night with conditions that could
potentially deteriorate to actual instrument. (cloudy, rain developing as
the flight progressed, visibility dropping somewhat)

The basic rundown... got the plane, preflighted in the dark, and realized
that it was the first time I had actually done a full preflight at night.
All the other night flights I did the preflight at dusk or earlier.
Definitely took me a few extra minutes to get oriented to the darkness and
using my flashlight.

I got through that ok, ready to do, and poof! My flashlight _light_ (not the
batteries) goes out! Just like the bright, microsend flash of illumination
you see from a normal light bulb then total darkness. Crap! Fortunately, I
had a spare light, smaller, but did the job. I was a bit disappointed in the
bulb that burnt out though... it was a Maglight, and barely over a year old
with hardly any use. I'm tempted to send it back to them for a replacement.

Takeoff out of CDW was uneventful, although the controller was a bit pushy
when I wanted to clarify the squawk before departing... she said "You need
to get rolling" after confirming the code was correct... somebody on
downwind was undoubtedly going to plow into me I guess if I didn't hurry
along. Needless to say, I didn't hurry. (I was still holding short, so if
need be could've just continued to hold short, but she (the controller) was
obviously in need of some excitement on a dreary night with barely any
traffic to manage).

So up up and away we go, didn't even have time to make the initial turn to
180 before departure vectored me to SAX. Then enroute to SWF for a practice
ILS.

I noticed before departing that one of the two radio / nav units in the
plane was not functioning... it's one of those that has a primary and
secondary freq, but the display was completely dead, so I decided to just
leave it off. So even before starting the flight, I knew I had only one
working com and one working nav / vor unit operational. No problem, if
things got too heavy, I could just cancel IFR and continue VFR... clouds
were definitely high enough on the way up (around 6000 OVC). As I got closer
to SWF, I tried tuning in the NDB so I could identify an intersection along
the LOC. No dice. I didn't hear the magic morse in the background, and the
needle spun and spun til I got dizzy. Strike two on operational components
in the plane! Still, I managed to get to SWF safely, and taxied off to the
side to get myself setup for the trip back to CDW.

Departure out of SWF was a bit more interesting, as I had to read the SWF.4
departure procedure. Easy to do, and so off I went. Unfortunately, the
routing back home wasn't optimal... was supposed to go out to HUG then turn
south to head to CDW, so I asked for a shortcut to SAX instead. After
getting handed off to NY Approach on 127.6, I had a helluva time hearing a
transmission from the controller. I asked to hear it again, and again, even
with the volume all the way up, it was barely audible. I got the instruction
ok tho... left turn to 170. And fortunately the gremlin in the radio cleared
itself up on the next transmission. But this turns out to have been strike 3
for equipment in the plane... I encountered this problem a couple other
times, fortunately when other pilots were transmitting, and not ATC.

Getting back in to CDW was a bit dicey, as the rain had started to come
down, and the mist was making it difficult to pick out CDW (which is
difficult enough these days anyway with 4/22 being closed for repairs). I
told the controller at one point that I had the beacon in sight, but that
wasn't good enough for him. 2 miles later, I could make out 9/27, so I was
handed off for a visual approach, which wasn't my best approach, but was a
squeaker of a landing.

So to sum up: I had 1 VOR, 1 COM, and no backups in the plane for this trip.
And the COM was flaky toward the end. Methinks this plane is about to be
decommissioned from the flight line, because the owner refuses to put any
more money into it. It also just came out of 100 hour, so should (in theory)
be at its best operating capacity. I know I won't be trying any more trips
at night or IFR in it anytime soon, but I'm glad I had the chance to push
the boundaries a bit with the bare minimums for night IFR flight.

--
Guy Elden Jr.

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

I just put an STEC 20 in my Six last year. Prior to that I put in about 100 hours in actual with no
AP. The Six is wonderfully stable, and I never had any real problems copying clearances, folding
charts etc. Trick is to limit looks away from the panel to very short intervals, no more than a
second or two, and when you look back look for bank info before anything else. Having the AP is
certainly a workload reducer, I can actually fish something out of my flight bag on the middle seat
while in IMC now, and it takes less total time to brief an approach now. Still, I mostly hand fly
and use George to fill in while I handle other tasks.

Nathan Young wrote:

David Megginson wrote in message ...
Peter R. writes:

Interesting you mention this point. I am in the process of watching
a few of the Richard Collins Sporty's aviation DVDs. In the IFR
Tips and Techniques DVD, he offers a PoV that suggest a pilot hand
flying in IMC does not necessarily have the big picture view that a
pilot who uses an AP might.

I haven't heard that before. Is it because hand flying doesn't leave
you as much time to look at charts, etc., and interpret secondary
information?

Collins is a big supporter of APs, and I'm with him. I have a
wing-leveler in my PA28-180. It is a huge help when copying clearance
amendments, studying an approach plate, or eating lunch. I definitely
agree with RC's point that the AP frees up mental bandwidth to process
other things like the big picture.

A lot of people get uptight about APs - but when used properly (ie not
a crutch) they can be a huge asset to single-pilot flying,
particularly IFR.

-Nathan

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

(Snowbird) wrote
Not really. Not unless your point is that "George" remains idle 99.9%
of the time spent in IMC, and is only engaged on an emergency basis.

Absolutely not. If "George" remains idle 99.9% of the time, then
clearly the pilot has no business engaging George on an emergency
basis because he has not maintained his proficiency in the care
and feeding of "George". In an emergency KISS and stick to what's
familiar say I.

By that logic, one should never attempt to fly a twin in an asymmetric
thrust condition in an emergency. After all, 99.9% of the time, the
engines operate in a symmetric condition (both producing approximately
equal output).

Michael

I've found that I can fly the airplane IMC with just the HSI page on my
Garmin III Pilot as long as I keep the control inputs gentle. Doing this,
my instructor covers all the flight instruments. Update rate is a little
on the slow side, but as long as you keep your turns gentle it is very
doable. This is in a Piper Cherokee Six, which is a pretty stable
platform to begin with. I'm not so sure that it would be doable with
something more slippery like a Bonanza or a Tiger, but it works well in
the truck. It does take a light touch and some practice, but it can
definitely be done.

David Megginson wrote:

(Lynne Miller) writes:

I think it is very safe to fly the airplane with two VORs and ADF,
if you are a proficient instrument pilot. This was done for thirty
plus years prior to GPS coming into the cockpit without much
problem. Remember, GPS is still a rather new invention when it
comes to aviation usage.

The reason I'm puzzled by the original poster's statement (and his
instructor's) is that the GPS, VOR, and ADF are all secondary
problems.

The primary task during flight in IMC is keeping the plane upright,
and a GPS does not help with that any more than a VOR or ADF does (in
fact, in the unlikely event that I lost *all* gyros but still somehow
had electricity, I'd probably choose the ADF over the GPS for trying
to keep the wings level, due to the ADF's faster response time).

Unless you're flying very low around high terrain, even a
completely-busted VOR, ADF, or GPS shouldn't kill you, so I don't see
how a functioning one puts you at risk. Of course, you will need some
way to land eventually, but in that case ILS is more accurate than GPS
anyway.

All the best,

David

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Ray Andraka writes:

I've found that I can fly the airplane IMC with just the HSI page on my
Garmin III Pilot as long as I keep the control inputs gentle. Doing this,
my instructor covers all the flight instruments. Update rate is a little
on the slow side, but as long as you keep your turns gentle it is very
doable.

My concern is that in moderate turbulence it's much harder to keep
control inputs gentle. On my last trip in IMC, for example, I hit a
couple of jolts that tipped me past 20 deg bank in a fraction of a
second. I'd like to know how well the GPS HSI page works in that
situation (I acknowledge that the TC is also tricky when the air's
that rough, since it has a slight lag built-in).

Has anyone tried using the HSI page on a handheld GPS in moderate
turbulence? I'd be very interested in hearing the results (especially
if it was on a cloudy day or at night, when there were no light or
shadow clues).


All the best,


David