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#41
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A Laser Phalanx?
On Sep 15, 3:35?pm, "William Black"
wrote: wrote in message ps.com... On Sep 15, 1:49?pm, "William Black" wrote: wrote in message roups.com... On Sep 15, 11:16?am, "William Black" So you do not accept US Government declassified intel documents even when they are presented to you? Oh yes. Point me to a URL. Are you stupid or something? So that's a 'no' then... Look, have you any idea just how significant and important all this stuff is? Nobel prizes were dished out and vast sums of money spent on the fundamental research that you and your mate claim was all done in about ten minutes, by some Nazis in tucked away in a back room somewhere, between designing the VI and building a flying saucer. Next loon please... -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Mr.Black you are just ****ed off that you are proven wrong probably by your own government which, btw, kept and still keeps classified German technology documents ranging from synthetic fuel, to aviation secrets, to beam weaponry, and spaceflight, plus the entire hidden history of the war locked away. You can also now locate Foo Fighters, which the USAF claimed they had no idea what they were, under PHOO BOMBS through FOIA and dated from 1944. Also have the inmtelligence to call a German disc a Flugscheibe or Flugkreisel and NOT a flying saucer- a term coined in 1947 by a reporter. ZXY ZXY |
#42
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A Laser Phalanx?
"William Black" wrote in message ... wrote in message ps.com... On Sep 15, 1:49?pm, "William Black" wrote: wrote in message ups.com... On Sep 15, 11:16?am, "William Black" So you do not accept US Government declassified intel documents even when they are presented to you? Oh yes. Point me to a URL. Are you stupid or something? So that's a 'no' then... Look, have you any idea just how significant and important all this stuff is? Nobel prizes were dished out and vast sums of money spent on the fundamental research that you and your mate claim was all done in about ten minutes, by some Nazis in tucked away in a back room somewhere, between designing the VI and building a flying saucer. Next loon please... Koos is due to make a re-appearance within the hour. Ah! No, I'm wrong. He schedules his arrival on S. African time to capture Eugene's attention. - nilita |
#43
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A Laser Phalanx?
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#44
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A Laser Phalanx?
On Sep 15, 3:59?pm, Vince wrote:
wrote: On Sep 15, 6:17?am, Vince wrote: wrote: Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and interferometry. Cheers, Ralph- Hide quoted text - Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes. source on lasers in germany in WWII? Vince Interrogation Report of Karl Schnettler 6824 DTC (MIS)M.1075 dated 13 Mar 45 discussing activities at I.G. Farben, Ludwigschafen and Kaiser Wilhelm Institute. All documentation taken from US Government microfilm under FOIA Section C: Experiments PW could add little to the information in Report 2/32. Experiment with Rats In the experiment of Apr 44 (See Report 2/32), PW stated that, when the rats were bombarded by the rays, a phosphorescent glow was observed over their bodies, lasting about a fifth of a second. PW believed that the rats were reduced to a gaseous sodium (?) which had been drawn into the vacuum system of the test stand. 6824 DTC (MIS)M.1075 Appendix "A" ATOM-SMASHING LABORATORY I.G. FARBEN/Ludwigschafen (diagram displayed) LEGEND 1. Recess for Electronic Tubes 2. Quartz shield 3. Focusing Area 4. Power Contact 5. POLYDRON (Y) 6. Power Cable 7. Target Stand 8. Observation and Control Station 9. Power station 10. Switch Station 11. Transformer Station This aligns with microfilm evidence of laser testing at I.G. Farben prersented by German researcher Fredrich Georg in his books. Engineers that participated in these experiments mentioned in Allied reports were Dipl-Ing Meissner, Ike, and also statements by their advisor Eringer. Meissner also worked on the German Magnetic Wave device (Motorstoppmittel). Project 1217, "Investigation Into German Possible Use Of Rays To Neutralize Allied Aircraft Motors". This weapon was constructed by the ELEMAG Construction Company, Hildesheim, 24 Jan 44 Further testimony comes from U-boat 977 Capt. Heinz Schaeffer of a beam weapon demonstration in Berlin just before he departed and ended- up surrendering at Mar del Plata in Argentina - all information from Henry Stevens "Hitler's Suppressed and Still- Secret Weapons, Science, and Technology" (2007) filled with declassified information ZXY none of which in any way describes a laser Vince- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - What other type of beam weaponry are you suggesting for disintegration? Curious??? ZXY |
#45
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A Laser Phalanx?
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#46
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A Laser Phalanx?
wrote in message ps.com... Mr.Black you are just ****ed off that you are proven wrong probably by your own government which, btw, kept and still keeps classified German technology documents ranging from synthetic fuel, to aviation secrets, to beam weaponry, and spaceflight, plus the entire hidden history of the war locked away. No they don't. Very few WWII documents are still secret in the UK and these relate almost entirly to matters involving treason or disloyalty by people still alive. If the Nazis had a death ray mounted on a flying saucer, even one, we'd all be speaking German and wearing silly uniforms by now. You can also now locate Foo Fighters, which the USAF claimed they had no idea what they were, under PHOO BOMBS through FOIA and dated from 1944. The major problem with this one is that the Germans were also designing what seem to be massivly inferior missile based air to air weapons and deploying them very late in the war. If you've got a war winning design then why bother to develop something inferior? The history of the R4M indicates that there was nothing better available. Reading the report "An Evalualtion of German Capabilities in 1945" from the 'Office of the Director of Intelligence' of the US Strategic Airforces in Europe, which was written some time in early 1945, makes it pretty clear that what were called Phoo Bombs by bomber crews were in fact Messerschnitt Me163 Komet aircraft Also have the inmtelligence to call a German disc a Flugscheibe or Flugkreisel and NOT a flying saucer- a term coined in 1947 by a reporter. The problem is, once more, that both the Germans and the USA were building 'flying wings'. The Ho-IX was a jet powered fighter bomber aircraft (made of wood) but was preceded by the Northrop N-1M by some four years. The 'flying wing' idea isn't new either. See http://www.century-of-flight.net/Avi...e_interwar.htm for loads of details. These damn things aren't a Nazi invention, were never particularly secret and aren't that radical in performance. Look up the 'Edwards' who the 'Edwards Airforce Base' is named after and what he was flying when he died... What you're seeing is initial evaluations by an intelligence service that is trying to guess what's going on 'on the other side of the hill' from reports brought back be people in a highly emotional state who weren't intelligence officers, and, reasonably understandably, slightly misinterpreting the results. -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. |
#47
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A Laser Phalanx?
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 13:09:16 +0100, "William Black"
wrote: Very few WWII documents are still secret in the UK and these relate almost entirly to matters involving treason or disloyalty by people still alive. Has HM Government actually come out and said this sometime in the past decade? I'd be interested in your views on what might still be considered secret other than that now - I would presume this was altered by the events of 1991 and their aftermath. Have the documents referred to by Tolstoy (in The Last Secret) concerning the children of Russian nationals who were NOT Soviet citizens but were nonetheless deported to the Soviet Union (usually to either immediate execution or long stretches in labor camps which often amounted to the same thing) by both Britain and the United States ever been declassified? |
#48
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A Laser Phalanx?
"The Horny Goat" wrote in message ... On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 13:09:16 +0100, "William Black" wrote: Very few WWII documents are still secret in the UK and these relate almost entirly to matters involving treason or disloyalty by people still alive. Has HM Government actually come out and said this sometime in the past decade? 2005 I seem to remember. Sixty years after the end of the war. All the files retained are now in the Public Record Officeand are numbered Something like sixty files are not available to the public. I'd be interested in your views on what might still be considered secret other than that now - I would presume this was altered by the events of 1991 and their aftermath. I believe that, amongst others, the files relating to two officers in the Italian navy are still not available and the investigation by Anthony Blunt, who was working for MI-5 at the time, into the relations between the late Duke of Winsor and Nazi Germany is still secret. One of the Italian officers was, the last time I heard, campaigning for his file to be released as he was supposed to have been seduced in the USA when he was the Italian Naval Atache there, and Italian naval cyphers stolen, or at least the key to the safe where they were stored were stolen, by his girlfriend. He's almost certsainly innocent of anything and the whole story was a fabrication to cover up the intercepts and decrypts that let to The Battle of Cape Matapan, but as he's alive they won't release the file... Have the documents referred to by Tolstoy (in The Last Secret) concerning the children of Russian nationals who were NOT Soviet citizens but were nonetheless deported to the Soviet Union (usually to either immediate execution or long stretches in labor camps which often amounted to the same thing) by both Britain and the United States ever been declassified? All the Don Cossack and similar stuff held by the UK was released years ago, HMG did withdraw some in 1991 when they were hanging Tolstoy and a crooked property developer called Watts out to dry, but it's all back on the shelf now. Thatcher unveiled a memorial to them over twenty-five years ago, it's across the road from the Natural History Museum. No idea about the US stuff but I think all the US files from WWII have now been released. Tolstoy's book wasn't called 'The Last Secret', that's a term used by well know Nazi sympathiser and holocaust denier David Irvine. Tolstoy's book, the one that got him sued, was 'The Minister and the Massacres' It didn't actually get him sued either. Watts was passing out nasty leaflets that used Tolstoy's book as a source and when he got sued Tolstoy decided to get himself named as 'co defendant' along with Watts who'd tried to destroy Lord Aldington's life. The whole sordid story is related here. http://politics.guardian.co.uk/polit...563440,00.html Now I'm not a man who would normally defend a Tory banker, but it seems to me that Tolstoy was on the wrong side and got what he richly deserved. -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. |
#49
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A Laser Phalanx?
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 17:40:35 +0100, "William Black"
wrote: Has HM Government actually come out and said this sometime in the past decade? 2005 I seem to remember. Sixty years after the end of the war. All the files retained are now in the Public Record Officeand are numbered Something like sixty files are not available to the public. Have the documents referred to by Tolstoy (in The Last Secret) concerning the children of Russian nationals who were NOT Soviet citizens but were nonetheless deported to the Soviet Union (usually to either immediate execution or long stretches in labor camps which often amounted to the same thing) by both Britain and the United States ever been declassified? All the Don Cossack and similar stuff held by the UK was released years ago, HMG did withdraw some in 1991 when they were hanging Tolstoy and a crooked property developer called Watts out to dry, but it's all back on the shelf now. Thatcher unveiled a memorial to them over twenty-five years ago, it's across the road from the Natural History Museum. No idea about the US stuff but I think all the US files from WWII have now been released. Tolstoy's book wasn't called 'The Last Secret', that's a term used by well know Nazi sympathiser and holocaust denier David Irvine. Tolstoy's book, the one that got him sued, was 'The Minister and the Massacres' Hmmmm. I could have sworn that was the title. My copy (which is buried under literally close to a ton of other books) was a silver colored Penguin edition with a Cossack on the cover. A quick check on Penguin's site doesn't locate it (or ANYTHING by any Tolstoy other than Leo) so it's clearly out of print. I have not to my knowledge EVER read anything by Irving except a dust jacket so it's got to be the Minister and the Massacres. How's that for a 'cite from Hell'? It didn't actually get him sued either. Watts was passing out nasty leaflets that used Tolstoy's book as a source and when he got sued Tolstoy decided to get himself named as 'co defendant' along with Watts who'd tried to destroy Lord Aldington's life. The whole sordid story is related here. http://politics.guardian.co.uk/polit...563440,00.html Now I'm not a man who would normally defend a Tory banker, but it seems to me that Tolstoy was on the wrong side and got what he richly deserved. I knew the story of his feud with Aldington and I agree with your assessment. Any wrongdoing was at a considerably higher level than Aldington - probably Churchill himself at Yalta. Thanks for the info. |
#50
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A Laser Phalanx?
"The Horny Goat" wrote in message ... I knew the story of his feud with Aldington and I agree with your assessment. Any wrongdoing was at a considerably higher level than Aldington - probably Churchill himself at Yalta. A deal was done by the Allied leaders at Yalta that any traitors captured would be handed back to the appropriate country for trial and punishment. At the time it is likely that the British overestimated the numbers involved on their side with intelligence assessments putting the numbers in hundreds rather than the dozen or so that actually turned traitor. A number of British traitors were handed back or captured and some were certainly executed and others got long prison sentences. It is interesting to note that the Russians refrained from shooting British SS men out of hand, as was their normal practice for most SS men they caught. One was in a Soviet jail for five or six years as they preferred to believe he was a British spy rather than an SS man. At the end of the war the USA seems to have made little or no attempt to bring the members of the American Free Corps to justice, with the notable exception of Martin Monti, who didn't get out of jail until 1960. I'm much more interested in why a character called Douglas Berneville-Claye was up to between being captured in 1942 and turning up in Berlin in March 1945 in an SS captain's uniform. He was a real traitor, but nobody knows much about him except that at the end of the war he was an SS captain and was certainly captured and was promptly allowed to rejoin the army... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1898942.stm -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. |
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