FES in Contests

Sorry Kirk, I usually agree with you, but a poker run is no fun at all. Too
many "motorcycle enthusiasts" wearing the proper costumes and spending all
their time polishing their bikes. cheezy grin And, at the end, they
usually limit you to two beers.


"kirk.stant" wrote in message
...
On Friday, February 14, 2014 3:30:47 PM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:

I'm just saying that some risks like circling at low AGL and being low
and far from a landable field could be quantified and incorporated into
scoring. I don't expect sailplane competition to do much if any of that
in a general way ever.

It is. Low is slow. If you land out you lose the day. If you break your
glider you are out of the contest. If you die your wife gets rich and
somebody else gets your stereo!

Maybe the idea would get traction on something (like OLC) that
incorporated safety margins in scoring. GPS logs make that possible.

What problem are you trying to solve? Or, setup a contest the way you like
it and see if others agree and come and play.

As far as road rallying - you ever watch rallying on TV? No risk taking?
YGBSM!
What you are talking about is a poker run. Which is fun too...

Kirk
66

On Saturday, February 15, 2014 9:51:31 AM UTC-5, wrote:

Hopefully this thread can become unhijacked.

Don't be ****ed off at me for highjacking this thread. It was declared highjacked and abandoned by MNLou (the original poster)and superseded by the thread "FES - Take 2" well before I added a comment. I thought that engaging a few racing pilots in an already drifted and abandoned thread was better than starting a new topic based on one of my admittedly weak and uninformed conjectures.


On Saturday, February 15, 2014 9:51:31 AM UTC-5, wrote:

If you have not been to a contest and watched how it is done, you really have no idea what you are talking about.

Well yeah, of course. That's why I started my post with an explicit declaration of my ignorance:

On Friday, February 14, 2014 11:43:02 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote: I'm truly ignorant of how risk taking is rewarded in sailplane racing

Is there a better place for a self-declared new guy to put his possible misconceptions out there to be corrected by those who know better? I stay out of racer-only threads that have not drifted.

You seem to have drawn some conclusions about competition soaring that do not agree with my experience over the last 37 years.

I'm not surprised. Please correct my misconceptions. I'm just trying to figure out what competitive soaring is all about. Would you rather I keep my misconceptions to myself?

On Saturday, February 15, 2014 9:51:31 AM UTC-5, wrote:

There are many opportunities in the sport and likely competition is not for you, but maybe you should go look before drawing your conclusions.

It is entirely premature for anyone to say that I will never fly in a race.

Are you saying that I should not try to conceptualize and understand what goes on at a competition before I attend a competition? Are you offended by a self-declared ignorant new guy putting his misconceptions out there for correction? I understand that some topics understandably 'touch a nerve'. I'm just learning to steer clear of them, and I'm bound to stumble into something uncomfortable.

On Saturday, February 15, 2014 9:51:31 AM UTC-5, wrote:

Some of this may be a result of dramatic comments on this site related to low circling. This ocasionally does happen and we try to discouarge it, in part so that more militant "safety advocates" can't get a foot hold on this topic.

It is true that in contests we fly on days that we might not assemble at home, and sometimes over terrain that is far less that hospitable, and in difficult weather. That is simply part of the sport. Those of us that write rules, run contests, and call tasks work hard to make the sport as safe as practical without destroying the challenge that brought us to it in the first place.


That raises some questions and I would like to ask for clarification. I really would like to understand soaring competition. BUT you've convinced me that I should just "bug out". I respect your knowledge and experience, so I will take your advice and just sign off.

On Sat, 15 Feb 2014 10:20:07 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

Personally, I don't like the regimentation that goes along with contest
flying so I choose not to fly in contests. I flew in three contests in
the past 25+ years, had a great time, placed all over the score sheet,
and decided it's not for me. I like to just go somewhere and have a
good time doing it. So, if you decide to fly in a contest at Moriarty,
I'll tow you or fly the sniffer and mark the first thermal, but then
I'll head off in a direction different than the task area.

I may have missed mention of this. but in the US or A for you allow 'hors
du concours' flying?

This is quite popular in the UK and is generally allowed at Regionals and
Inter-club League events. Translation follows in case you don't use that
term. It means that additional non-competing gliders can be added to the
rear of the grid and are launched after the competing pilots. Hors du
concours pilots will have attended the briefing and will fly the day's
task but are not scored and, IIRC do not affect the time when the gate
opens.

I think its a good thing for a qualified XC pilot to do, especially if
they are thinking about trying competition flying, because it lets them
get a feel for competing without committing to fly an entire competition
or feeling pressured into taking a launch on a poor day.

If you do this on your side of the pond it might be something that
son_of_flubber would like to try.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Saturday, February 15, 2014 10:22:48 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Sorry Kirk, I usually agree with you, but a poker run is no fun at all. Too

many "motorcycle enthusiasts" wearing the proper costumes and spending all

their time polishing their bikes. cheezy grin And, at the end, they

usually limit you to two beers.

TWO BEERS? How can you kickstart that Harley after only two beers? Oh, I forgot, that's what your right (or left, I forget) thumb is for....

And that isn't near enough to take the pain away from the road rash...or the bitch slap you get from trying to get your biker babe to take off her top during the ride.

Kirk

On Saturday, February 15, 2014 11:17:56 AM UTC-7, son_of_flubber wrote:

That raises some questions and I would like to ask for clarification. I really would like to understand soaring competition. BUT you've convinced me that I should just "bug out". I respect your knowledge and experience, so I will take your advice and just sign off.

Please don't do that. Remember that this is the digital equivalent to talking about politics and religion in a bar - everyone gets to be an asshole about something!

If you are serious about learning about soaring competition - go to a contest and help out on the ground. Go to the task briefings, and talk to the pilots after the day's racing is done. Offer to crew (most of us come solo these days, thanks to GPS, grrrrr).

The beauty of a race is that you can make of it what you want. If you are still learning XC and want to push yourself a bit harder, then you can fly the tasks at your comfort level and watch how more experienced pilots do it.. It's probably the best way to develop your xc skills.

As you get better, you may find that you are faster than someone else. You may also find that you really enjoy being faster than someone else (especially if its a friend). Now you are hooked!

Try it!

Cheers

Kirk
66

My '81 Shovelhead has a kicker and I can start it...... Sometimes....
Other times I need the button.


"kirk.stant" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, February 15, 2014 10:22:48 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Sorry Kirk, I usually agree with you, but a poker run is no fun at all.
Too

many "motorcycle enthusiasts" wearing the proper costumes and spending
all

their time polishing their bikes. cheezy grin And, at the end, they

usually limit you to two beers.

TWO BEERS? How can you kickstart that Harley after only two beers? Oh, I
forgot, that's what your right (or left, I forget) thumb is for....

And that isn't near enough to take the pain away from the road rash...or
the bitch slap you get from trying to get your biker babe to take off her
top during the ride.

Kirk

I haven't heard of what you describe, Martin, but on this side of the pond,
non-contestants are allowed to takeoff before or after the grid. They're to
fly wherever they want. What you suggest sounds like a great idea for a
budding contest pilot to get his feet wet.


"Martin Gregorie" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Feb 2014 10:20:07 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

Personally, I don't like the regimentation that goes along with contest
flying so I choose not to fly in contests. I flew in three contests in
the past 25+ years, had a great time, placed all over the score sheet,
and decided it's not for me. I like to just go somewhere and have a
good time doing it. So, if you decide to fly in a contest at Moriarty,
I'll tow you or fly the sniffer and mark the first thermal, but then
I'll head off in a direction different than the task area.

I may have missed mention of this. but in the US or A for you allow 'hors
du concours' flying?

This is quite popular in the UK and is generally allowed at Regionals and
Inter-club League events. Translation follows in case you don't use that
term. It means that additional non-competing gliders can be added to the
rear of the grid and are launched after the competing pilots. Hors du
concours pilots will have attended the briefing and will fly the day's
task but are not scored and, IIRC do not affect the time when the gate
opens.

I think its a good thing for a qualified XC pilot to do, especially if
they are thinking about trying competition flying, because it lets them
get a feel for competing without committing to fly an entire competition
or feeling pressured into taking a launch on a poor day.

If you do this on your side of the pond it might be something that
son_of_flubber would like to try.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Saturday, February 15, 2014 4:52:14 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
My '81 Shovelhead has a kicker and I can start it...... Sometimes....

Other times I need the button.

"Honey, hold my beer while I start this sucker..."

Never rode a Harley, had mucho dirt bikes and a Z1 for a while.

Still have the scars from a few "incidents".

May have to get back into (or onto) it again. The new Yamaha FZ-09 looks really sweet!

Kirk
66

This is really the wrong group, but... I've only been riding Harleys since
2001. I started on a BSA in '69. No scars or scabs whatsoever.

And, to link this back to flying - I've never broken an aircraft, either.


"kirk.stant" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, February 15, 2014 4:52:14 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
My '81 Shovelhead has a kicker and I can start it...... Sometimes....

Other times I need the button.

"Honey, hold my beer while I start this sucker..."

Never rode a Harley, had mucho dirt bikes and a Z1 for a while.

Still have the scars from a few "incidents".

May have to get back into (or onto) it again. The new Yamaha FZ-09 looks
really sweet!

Kirk
66

Some pics of the Lak17bfes propellers from Seminole Lake Gliderport today: https://plus.google.com/107761712519...ts/EVpB6AmnCtF