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#361
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#363
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On 14 Jul 2004 22:58:46 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:
Subject: Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam From: Ed Rasimus Date: 7/14/2004 1:41 PM Pac Optically guided flak can be defeated by jinking, random changes in heading and altitude that destroy the lead computation of the gun. Real men don't do jinking on the bomb run It's straight and level all the way in. And whoever makes it out buys the drinks.(:-) Arthur Kramer There's no glory in dying or losing your airplane unnecessarily. "Real men" put bombs on target. How you get to that point is nobody's business but your own. Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" Smithsonian Institution Press ISBN #1-58834-103-8 |
#364
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Subject: Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam
From: (Regnirps) Date: 7/15/2004 8:06 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: (Steve Mellenthin) wrote: I'm not sure that was borne out by experience in later wars, Art. In mine it was the guys with low time, low experience who got shot down the most. More experience worked in your favor. When you view the P-47 films from the 78th FG you find that ground attacks occure from ever greater altitudes or distances as the war goes on. Some of this is because the guys who liked to bet very close didn't last, but others are from experience with ground fire. Art didn't have the discretion that the escorts had. I'm sure there were assigned altitudes and headings and you stayed with the group. Art, who was the main stategy guy when you were flying? -- Charlie Springer I don't know. Some General up at wing I guess.. But it was always straight and level with bomb bay doors open and no evasive action on the bomb run. And down at 10,000 feet. Besides evasive action was imposible on the bomb run, It would tumble our Vertical Flight Gyros in the Norden, black out the sight, and we would have to do a go-around, Bad stuff. A go-around could spoil your whole day. And with all our vast experience flying missions we all knew that being down at 10,000 feet was nuts. We wanted to be higher but no chance. So much for doing what experiencve tells you to do. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer |
#365
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Subject: Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam
From: Ed Rasimus Date: 7/15/2004 8:12 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: On 14 Jul 2004 22:58:46 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote: Subject: Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam From: Ed Rasimus Date: 7/14/2004 1:41 PM Pac Optically guided flak can be defeated by jinking, random changes in heading and altitude that destroy the lead computation of the gun. Real men don't do jinking on the bomb run It's straight and level all the way in. And whoever makes it out buys the drinks.(:-) Arthur Kramer There's no glory in dying or losing your airplane unnecessarily. "Real men" put bombs on target. How you get to that point is nobody's business but your own. Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" Smithsonian Institution Press ISBN #1-58834-103-8 I guess you didn't have 55 other planes in tight formation behind you did you? In that csse they (we) are all involved. Do it right or you'll hear about it 336 times. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer |
#366
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On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:40:29 -0500, Jack
wrote: Sam Byrams wrote: [Mason's book claims] the T-38 Talon was a big challenge for people whose total experience consisted of under 200 hours in the T-37. In the mid and late 60's it would have been less than 100 hrs in the Tweet for studs transitioning to the Talon, and nobody didn't like the T-38. You've got that right. I had 132 hours in Tweets before Talons. The UPT syllabus dropped that to 120 with introduction of the T-41 screening. No problems. Later with better simulators the total UPT syllabus was reduced to 188 hours with less than half of that coming prior to T-38 qualification. The T-38 has been a great airplane for 42 years of training and with the upgraded glass cockpit looks like it will be active in SUPT for another 20 years at least. Easy to fly, no adverse characteristics. Reliable. I wound up with about 1500 hours in Talons, more than 1200 accrued as an instructor in Fighter Lead-In teaching new instructor candidates. (And taking the occasional recreational trip to ski in CO/UT, visit the sea-food paradises of FL or the sexpots of LSV.) Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" Smithsonian Institution Press ISBN #1-58834-103-8 |
#367
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Regnirps wrote:
Same as rolling dice. Rolling five boxcars in a row doesn't increase the odds that you won't on the 6th throw -- each throw is an independent event. I'll take issue with this, Charlie. While each throw is statistically independent (assuming honest dice, naturally), the fact that they are honest dice requires that the most common throw be a seven. The more consecutive boxcars you throw, the higher the probability that the next throw will NOT be a 12. Boxcards is not a statistically likely event. Each throw **is** an independent event, but the total population of throws is governed by the overall statistical distribution. Jeff |
#368
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(ArtKramr) wrote:
Ed Rasimus wrote: There's no glory in dying or losing your airplane unnecessarily. "Real men" put bombs on target. How you get to that point is nobody's business but your own. I guess you didn't have 55 other planes in tight formation behind you did you? In that csse they (we) are all involved. Do it right or you'll hear about it 336 times. Just more sour grapes because you weren't good enough to be a pilot, much less a fighter pilot? |
#369
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Ed wrote:
There's no glory in dying or losing your airplane unnecessarily. "Real men" put bombs on target. How you get to that point is nobody's business but your own. Art replied: I guess you didn't have 55 other planes in tight formation behind you did you? In that csse they (we) are all involved. Do it right or you'll hear about it 336 times. Differnt war, Different aircraft, Different Tactics, Different weapons, Different politicians, Same intent..Kill that other poor SOB before he gets you. Rick Clark MFE |
#370
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In article ,
Guy Alcala writes: Peter Stickney wrote: In article , Guy Alcala writes: Ed Rasimus wrote: On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 22:24:59 GMT, Guy Alcala wrote: Jack wrote: Harry Andreas wrote: Yah, but was it a V-tail Bonanza? Of course, though he was a reasonably debonair sort, for a guy from Toledo. Oh, I dunno. If a Debonair exercized a bit & slimmed down a bit, it would probably serve as a Mentor. Before we end up (s)punning in, I hereby declare a moratorium on all puns based on the names of Beech (or any other company's: I can feel someone loading up with the Tutor even as I write) a/c names. Sure, I know it's probably futile, but the effort has to be made. This is _not_ s.m.n. ;-) Well, I do see your point. But now that you mention it, you did know that the nickname at Canadair and in the CanForce for the Malay CL-41 COIM variant equivalant to teh A-37 was the "Shooter Tutor" -- Pete Stickney A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures. -- Daniel Webster |
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