Winch Operations

Don, well said. I should have clarified what we teach he
At my home field (and throughout Denmark), we use:
Too slow: Lower nose somewhat, signal with rudder.
Should read: Too slow: Lower nose somewhat, signal with rudder, if
conditions do not improve immediately, RELEASE and treat as launch failure.

What I find interesting is that rudder/aileron signals are apparently used
with inverse meaning, depending on where in the World you are launching.
Could get your attention if you forgot to check this at some visit to some
soaring Mecca one day..

/Lars Peder


"Don Johnstone" wrote in
message ...
You need to carefully think about this. Time was in
the UK when the signal for too fast was yawing the
glider (it still is) and the signal for too slow was
lower the nose and 'signal with ailerons'. The latter
procedure was 'banned' some years ago, with good reason
and replaced by lower the nose, if the airspeed does
not increase, RELEASE and treat as a launch failure.
A glider on the launch is carrying a large amount of
cable which increases the wing loading, the wing is
almost certainly already at a high angle of attack
and if motive power is lost this has to increase. (as
airspeed reduces angle of attack increases to maintain
flight). Knowing what happens if the angle of attack
of a wing is increased by moving the airleron down
on one wing, when that wing is already at a high angle
of attack, do you really want to do that. One wing
stalled=possibility of spinning with the cable still
attached, not something that you will want to do. This
scenario is induced by moving the ailerons in this
situation. That is why the practice was discontinued
in the UK. Use of the rudder (yawing) at a high angle
of attack is probably even worse, makes me cringe to
think about it.

I agree with the gentleman who advised getting an experienced
winch launch instructor to see you through the first
few days/weeks. It may cost a few shekels but what
value do you put on a life

Summer at 40-50 celsius?

Stefan wrote:
Janos Bauer wrote:

It could be difficult on our noisy Hercules H4


Well, there is a tool exactly for this. It's called headset.

Stefan

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:47:45 +0100, "Lars Peder Hansen"
wrote:

Don, well said. I should have clarified what we teach he
At my home field (and throughout Denmark), we use:
Too slow: Lower nose somewhat, signal with rudder.
Should read: Too slow: Lower nose somewhat, signal with rudder, if
conditions do not improve immediately, RELEASE and treat as launch failure.

What I find interesting is that rudder/aileron signals are apparently used
with inverse meaning, depending on where in the World you are launching.
Could get your attention if you forgot to check this at some visit to some
soaring Mecca one day..

I find it even more interesting that these signs are still used today
with the availability of radio. When I'm already athigh AoA the last
thing I'd like to do would be using aileron or rudder - each of them a
perfect spin entry move.

I see things this way:
If the parameters of the launch leave the safe range, release
immediately and fly a standard rope-break pattern. Then have a talk
with the winch driver. Much ceaper than having a talk with the
insurance man if the winch driver did not apply power quickly enough.



Bye
Andreas

"Andreas Maurer" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:47:45 +0100, "Lars Peder Hansen"
wrote:

Don, well said. I should have clarified what we teach he
At my home field (and throughout Denmark), we use:
Too slow: Lower nose somewhat, signal with rudder.
Should read: Too slow: Lower nose somewhat, signal with rudder, if
conditions do not improve immediately, RELEASE and treat as launch
failure.

What I find interesting is that rudder/aileron signals are apparently
used
with inverse meaning, depending on where in the World you are launching.
Could get your attention if you forgot to check this at some visit to
some
soaring Mecca one day..

I find it even more interesting that these signs are still used today
with the availability of radio. When I'm already athigh AoA the last
thing I'd like to do would be using aileron or rudder - each of them a
perfect spin entry move.

Bye
Andreas

Me too. Use voice radio or better still, radio modems to send the airspeed
digitally to the winch driver.

However, The AOA isn't that critical. Measuring the AOA with a calibrated
"pitch string" during winch launches, I found that if the airspeed is in the
normal range, the AOA is about the same as best L/D.

Bill Daniels

So far very few have emphasised the safety aspects of winching

Ground operations
1) Keep everyone well clear of winch cables at all times
2) Never allow anyone to cross winch cables
3) Only pick up the next winch cable after the previous has been completely
drawn in
4) Never allow aero takeoffs over the cables (A plane went in at a UK club
after getting tangled up in the cables.)
5) Never allow open wheel landings across cables.
6) Retrieve vehicles should never cross the cables and gliders should only
land across them in extremis preferably with breaks off
7) Weak link should be shown to PIC immediately before launch
8) Mark the end of the cables with a bollard - this helps everyone to
clearly see where the cables are and also gives an aiming point when towing
out.
9) Field should be clear for emmegency landing in event of break before
permission to launch is given.

Stress at all times how dangerous the cables can be


Flying the cable
1) Speed should be between 1.5xVs and Vw
2) Transition should be smooth no reaching for the heavens it gains very
little and only endangers the pilot and anyone banging their tail on
rotation needs to be retaught asap.
3) Keep all PICs trained with regular simulated winch failures especially at
the tricky 200-300 ft height. You will see regular failures for real
especially if flying Inexperienced pilots.
4) Back release needs checking every day on each glider flying the winch
5) Weak Links should be examined before launch for fractures.
6) Keep a supply of spare strops/weak links at both ends of the cable (Winch
& Launch point)
7) Make sure you have a table easily available of what weak link to use for
each glider type

With respect to the winch itself most of it is fairly obvious ie inspect
everything at start of day and make sure that you have put down an earthing
spike. Cables are a great attractor for static/lightning.

To be honest you really need to borrow a winch driver from somewhere
preferably also with an Instructor unless any of yours have recent winch
experience. We have much tougher time limits on certification for winch than
aero if only because of the likelihood of a cable break resulting in a spin
close to the ground. I am sure that if you offered all expenses and a few
days flying then you would be inundated. I know enough about winching to
know that it is a real art form - I can normally tell who is winching me
just by the ride he gives me.

Winching is a great way to get a lot of gliders in the air cheaply and
quickly BUT you only have to look at the UK accident stats where winching is
common to see how dangerous they can really be.

The BGA recently published an article on winching you can find it at
http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgainfo/saf...s/winching.pdf

Hope this helps a little.

rgds
Stephen


"Frank Smith" wrote in message
news
We are getting close to getting our first winch operation going and need
to
develop some Ops and Procedures.
I hate starting with a "blank page"
Anybody have some Ops and Procedures to send my way to get started?


Regards,
Frank

My return address is slightly modified to reduce SPAM.

Soaring Society South Africa has a winch procedures manual here

http://www.mgc.org.za/MemberStuff/club_stuff.htm

Janos Bauer wrote:

Summer at 40-50 celsius?

What is your life worth? And, by the way, what is the ear of the winch
driver worth?

Stefan

12-02-2004 15:42, Janos Bauer:

It could be difficult on our noisy Hercules H4
Well, there is a tool exactly for this. It's called headset.
Summer at 40-50 celsius?
You need the headset only during the launch. We have both loudspeaker
and headset.

--
Wojtus'.net __|__
FidoNet: 2:484/47 `--------o--------'

Stephen Haley wrote:

So far very few have emphasised the safety aspects of winching
=20
Ground operations
1) Keep everyone well clear of winch cables at all times
2) Never allow anyone to cross winch cables
3) Only pick up the next winch cable after the previous has been comple=
tely
drawn in
4) Never allow aero takeoffs over the cables (A plane went in at a UK c=
lub
after getting tangled up in the cables.)
5) Never allow open wheel landings across cables.
6) Retrieve vehicles should never cross the cables and gliders should o=
nly
land across them in extremis preferably with breaks off
7) Weak link should be shown to PIC immediately before launch
8) Mark the end of the cables with a bollard - this helps everyone to
clearly see where the cables are and also gives an aiming point when to=
wing
out.
9) Field should be clear for emmegency landing in event of break before=

permission to launch is given.

This is what I can add:

10) When launching on gras keep it very short (in case a wing drops)

11) We inspect the cable every day before the first launch (walking
along the cable holding it up with a hook; look for dry gras on the
cable!) and cut out any damaged pieces. Many clubs don=B4t do that and fl=
y
the cable till it breaks but although every pilot must be able to handle
a cable-break the risk is there. With this method real cable-breaks are
a very rare event at our site. Most times the weaklink breaks.

Stress at all times how dangerous the cables can be
=20
Flying the cable
1) Speed should be between 1.5xVs and Vw
2) Transition should be smooth no reaching for the heavens it gains ver=
y
little and only endangers the pilot and anyone banging their tail on
rotation needs to be retaught asap.
3) Keep all PICs trained with regular simulated winch failures especial=
ly at
the tricky 200-300 ft height. You will see regular failures for real
especially if flying Inexperienced pilots.
4) Back release needs checking every day on each glider flying the winc=
h
5) Weak Links should be examined before launch for fractures.
6) Keep a supply of spare strops/weak links at both ends of the cable (=
Winch
& Launch point)
7) Make sure you have a table easily available of what weak link to use=
for
each glider type

8) To the winchdriver: When there is a stop-command with the plane still
on ground- stop
When there is a stop-command or something else (problems with the cable,
motor etc.) keep on. Try to bring them at least to 350ft.

9) Make sure the enginetemperature is ok before the first launch.

Best regards

Bernhard

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 04:07:41 +0000 (UTC), "Stephen Haley"
wrote:

So far very few have emphasised the safety aspects of winching

Ground operations
1) Keep everyone well clear of winch cables at all times
2) Never allow anyone to cross winch cables
3) Only pick up the next winch cable after the previous has been completely
drawn in
4) Never allow aero takeoffs over the cables (A plane went in at a UK club
after getting tangled up in the cables.)
5) Never allow open wheel landings across cables.
6) Retrieve vehicles should never cross the cables and gliders should only
land across them in extremis preferably with breaks off
7) Weak link should be shown to PIC immediately before launch
8) Mark the end of the cables with a bollard - this helps everyone to
clearly see where the cables are and also gives an aiming point when towing
out.
9) Field should be clear for emmegency landing in event of break before
permission to launch is given.

(10) the winch must have a signal (rotating flashing yellow light on
ours) that is automatically on when the winch is in gear.

(11) people must not touch a cable while the winch is in gear.

(12) anybody near but not in the winch must be inside a vehicle during
a launch. The vehicle should be within a 45 degree cone behind the
winch and not closer than 10 m.

--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :