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#11
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Control surface design question
"Montblack" wrote in message ... ) I tried to get some pics but Goggle is acting up this morning. http://www.flyingflea.org/docs/SprattControlwing.htm Here's some pics Ooohh! That looks scary! g -- Jim in NC |
#12
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Control surface design question
Chris W wrote:
I'm sure everyone here is familiar with the combination of the horizontal stabilizer and elevator to make a stabilator. I think I have even heard of the concept being used for a ruder. My question is has anyone ever made a plane taking the concept all the way and made a "wingeron"? My guess is no one has, seems to me it would be difficult to do and maintain the required strength with out adding a lot of weight. It's probably not practical for a real plane but I thought it might be an interesting experiment to try on an RC plane. Only one I ever heard of would be the Spratt "Control Wing" Lots of links from Google... Richard http://www.flyingflea.org/docs/SprattControlwing.htm http://www.georgespratt.org/docs/PaulsonArticle.htm http://www.georgespratt.org/Articles...nianSpratt.htm http://www.maam.org/aircraft/spratt.htm members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/selecting/kits/Spratt%20Controlwing.html http://wings.avkids.com/Book/Wright/...1_1902t64.html |
#13
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Control surface design question
On Jul 13, 12:18 am, Chris W wrote:
I'm sure everyone here is familiar with the combination of the horizontal stabilizer and elevator to make a stabilator. I think I have even heard of the concept being used for a ruder. My question is has anyone ever made a plane taking the concept all the way and made a "wingeron"? My guess is no one has, seems to me it would be difficult to do and maintain the required strength with out adding a lot of weight. It's probably not practical for a real plane but I thought it might be an interesting experiment to try on an RC plane. Have you looked up the "flying flea". The elevator was fixed and the wing pivoted to provide more or less lift. There were no ailerons but the wing had so much dihedral it stayed fairly level, even when you turned with the big rudder. A bunch of them were built in the 1930s, The first ones had a problem where the wing did not have enough travel to pull out of a steep dive. It was easy to fix once it was known, but by that time some people had died and the plane's reputation was not recoverable. John Halpenny |
#14
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Control surface design question
The Biplum is an ultralight biplane with a lower wing that swivels in lieu of ailerons. It may even have a mixer arrangement adjust the angle of attack too, I don't remember. http://frederic.secchi.free.fr/ULM/P...ges/Biplum.htm -- FF |
#15
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Control surface design question
On Jul 14, 11:49 am, John Halpenny wrote:
On Jul 13, 12:18 am, Chris W wrote: I'm sure everyone here is familiar with the combination of the horizontal stabilizer and elevator to make a stabilator. I think I have even heard of the concept being used for a ruder. My question is has anyone ever made a plane taking the concept all the way and made a "wingeron"? My guess is no one has, seems to me it would be difficult to do and maintain the required strength with out adding a lot of weight. It's probably not practical for a real plane but I thought it might be an interesting experiment to try on an RC plane. Have you looked up the "flyingflea". The elevator was fixed and the wing pivoted to provide more or less lift. There were no ailerons but the wing had so much dihedral it stayed fairly level, even when you turned with the big rudder. A bunch of them were built in the 1930s, The first ones had a problem where the wing did not have enough travel to pull out of a steep dive. It was easy to fix once it was known, but by that time some people had died and the plane's reputation was not recoverable. John Halpenny The issue with the original flea (the HM-14) was not that it didn't have enough control travel to get out of a dive but that it had too much control travel. If you pulled right back on the stick you would stall the front wing, the back wing would still deliver lift and put you into a steep dive. Pushing forward too far could put you in the same position, as can severe turbulence (ie no lift = no tension on the control cables and the wing slams to the full down position and stalls). The earliest Flying Fleas used cables to pull the front wing down and required the wing to pull up itself. This has problems when the wing stalled. The fix was to put rigid tubes in place of the cables to the control column as per the later HM-14e to permit the wing to be pushed back up to flying position. The original flea (the HM-14) aerofoil has a sharp leading edge and a consequent vicious stall if pushed this way. Recovery required the controls to be centred so the front wing would start lifting again, once lift was re-established recovery would occur rapidly and automatically. (This feels very wrong to a pilot trained on a conventional aircraft, to center the controls in a dive rather than pull back) The fleas oversized rudder will put the plane in a 60 degree bank all by itself. There are other issues a well with the design regards center of gravity but this is not the probably forum to discuss them. But the plans were fixed and the later fleas are quite safe aircraft if you are aware of the piloting peculiarities. Regards Allan Gibson |
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