New Aviation Terminology

I will just add one point that just occurred to me.

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...

a) that a landing aircraft failed to obtain a clearance to land, and

No. That's the whole point. A controller may well clear an airplane to
land right on top of you. You just don't know.

In the US ATC is permitted to anticipate separation in landing clearances:
"3-10-6. ANTICIPATING SEPARATION

Landing clearance to succeeding aircraft in a landing sequence need not be
withheld if you observe the positions of the aircraft and determine that
prescribed runway separation will exist when the aircraft cross the landing
threshold. Issue traffic information to the succeeding aircraft if not
previously reported and appropriate traffic holding in position or departing
prior to their arrival."

"American Two Forty-Five cleared to land, following United Boeing
Seven-Thirty-Seven two mile final, traffic will depart prior to your
arrival."

In the UK (and I think in the rest of Europe), such clearances are not
permitted. A landing clearance indicates that the runway *is* clear and
will remain clear of other traffic until the aircraft has vacated it.



Thus the level of confusion/incompetence/distraction required for the
controller to "clear an airplane to land right on top of you" would be very
much greater in the UK. I can imagine a scenario under the US regime where,
if the departing traffic were waiting for an IFR clearance and it were slow
to arrive, a controller might fail to resolve the unanticipated conflict.
In the UK it would require a major mistake as to fact, not just a mistaken
expectation.

"Julian Scarfe" wrote in message
...
I think you do yourself no favours with that argument as fear of spiders
tends to be an irrational fear.

I never said the fear of spiders was entirely rational. My point is that
the fear is understandable. Likewise, whether you believe the fear of
position-and-hold is rational or not, it is certainly understandable.

Pete

"Julian Scarfe" wrote in message
...
[...]
Thus the level of confusion/incompetence/distraction required for the
controller to "clear an airplane to land right on top of you" would be
very
much greater in the UK. [...]
In the UK it would require a major mistake as to fact, not just a mistaken
expectation.

Yes, there is definitely an operational difference between landings
clearances in the US and in the UK, just as there are differences in what
qualifies an airport for a tower, and the nature of taxiways at various
airports. I do recognize that flying the US is often very different from
flying elsewhere, and my comments are specifically with respect to my own
experiences in the US. They may or may not be applicable elsewhere.

Pete

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
link.net...

"John Harper" wrote in message
news:1069786900.839440@sj-nntpcache-3...

Actually there are some changes as a result of Tenerife. For
example in the UK the word "cleared" is used only in "cleared
for takeoff". Other uses (e.g. for taxi) use some other word,
"permission" iirc.


What is used for IFR clearances?

"Your clearance is...x to y to z via w (or whatever)"

Paul

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
link.net...
Yes, they used the C-word in delivering the IFR clearance. How would they
issue an IFR clearance without using it? But Paul Sengupta wrote, "It may
be the case that the Dutch captain heard the words "cleared" and
"take-off"
and thought that was his cue to go." ATC said "OK. Stand by for
take-off,
I will call you." No C-word.

It was the use of "take-off" that became the big issue.

What the KLM captain thought, we don't know.

Paul

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
link.net...

What is used for IFR clearances?

"Paul Sengupta" wrote in message
.. .

"Your clearance is...x to y to z via w (or whatever)"

I think that's likely to confuse the issue, Paul.

Here's the example from CAP 413 the Radiotelephony Manual, which is typical
of IFR clearances in my experience.

"Fastair 345 is cleared to Kennington via A1 at FL 60, request level change
enroute, squawk 5501"

There's no significant difference in phraseology.

Julian Scarfe