TV Interview With Pilot From ADIZ Incident

www.msnbc.com

Look for the Today Show link

Small box near the center of page ... as of 930mst, it was #6 of 13 video
clips you could choose from.

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

I can't wait for the book...

Title suggestions are requested.

DUH!
would be a title.

CLUELESS over DC
would be another.

I saw the interview on MSNBC.
I read the statement that his lawyer put out which switched between a first
and third person narrative, making me also question the intelligence of his
attorney, although previously, he served as an attorney with the Federal
Aviation Administration. He is past president of the National Transportation
Safety Board Bar Association. hmmm...

"At this point, for the first time, we were able to visually identify our
location as being in a Flight Restricted Zone (FRZ)" Ok, so before they
were able to identify their location they weren't following their progress
and were, for lack of another word, lost?

Nothing I've seen, heard, or read about his flight has changed my opinion of
either his nonchalant attitude and or his inability or unwillingness to
flight plan through complex airspace.

I feel no sympathy for Mr. Sheaffer. I feel a little for Mr. Martin, but he
too, even as a 30 hour student, should have flight planned the route and
made himself extremely familiar with it.

No call to FSS. No VFR or ADIZ flight plan. No flight following. No clue.
No more ticket. No excuses.

Jim



"Paul kgyy" wrote in message
oups.com...
I can't wait for the book...

Title suggestions are requested.

"Jim Burns" wrote in message
...
DUH!

I feel no sympathy for Mr. Sheaffer. I feel a little for Mr. Martin, but
he
too, even as a 30 hour student, should have flight planned the route and
made himself extremely familiar with it.

No call to FSS. No VFR or ADIZ flight plan. No flight following. No
clue.
No more ticket. No excuses.

I agree with Jim 100%. The statement also says that they "took a more
southerly route in order to avoid the restricted airspace over camp david",
but its kinda unbelievable because the direct route was right over DC. To
get into camp david they would have to fly a lot more west that they needed
to get to the airport in NC.
If I ever need to fly under VFR in the proximity of the area, I'd definitely
fly a flight plan and get flight following....

The statement also says that they "took a more
southerly route in order to avoid the restricted airspace over camp
david",
but its kinda unbelievable because the direct route was right over DC. To
get into camp david they would have to fly a lot more west that they
needed
to get to the airport in NC.

I looked at that too.
In 0.24 seconds Googleing "DC ADIZ TFR Camp David Prohibited" gave me
http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/afs800/docs/tfrweb.pdf
as it's #1 return.
This guy went on and on about how he checked so many websites about weather
and such, even the AOPA web site. If he was so worried about the Camp David
P area, he could have found the FAA TFR pdf as easy as I did, and if he
would have, he would have saw the list of requirements not only to enter the
ADIZ, but the intercept procedures as well.

Jim

Jim Burns wrote:

I feel no sympathy for Mr. Sheaffer. I feel a little for Mr. Martin, but he
too, even as a 30 hour student, should have flight planned the route and
made himself extremely familiar with it.

He should have?? He was a passenger. While it may be a good
learning exercise (assuming he was even at that stage of his training),
I wouldn't expect a passenger to go to that kind of effort. If this
was a training flight with an actual instructor, that would be a
different story.

When I go along for a ride as a passenger, I don't flight plan a
proposed route. I let the PIC take care of that.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

The "he was a passenger" is a cop out. If you are a pilot, even a student
pilot with only 30 hours, and you are in the airplane, why wouldn't you do
everything you could to be prepared?? which to me starts at home with
flight planning.

At 30 hours, I would expect that the student pilot/passenger had completed
at least part of his cross country training, so I'd expect that if he had
agreed to do the hands on flying through that type of airspace that he would
take the effort to flight plan it also. Granted, he was not PIC, nor was he
under any obligation or requirement to flight plan the trip, but any student
worth his salt would have if knowing in advance that he would be doing the
actual flying through that airspace.

I'll also put some more blame on Mr. Shaeffer for not mentoring the student
pilot towards flight planning the trip. I would expect that suggestion of
any private pilot that takes a cross country flight with a student pilot.
You don't have to be an instructor to promote and display proper flight
planning to students.

....and when I go on a cross country flight "just as a passenger" of another
pilot, I usually will take the trouble to draw a line on a map... takes all
of about 45 seconds. The closest prohibited area here is a live fire
bombing range in the middle of a restricted area which is in the middle of a
MOA, I don't care who the PIC is, I'll still plan the proposed route.

Jim

"John Galban" wrote in message
oups.com...


Jim Burns wrote:

I feel no sympathy for Mr. Sheaffer. I feel a little for Mr. Martin,
but he
too, even as a 30 hour student, should have flight planned the route and
made himself extremely familiar with it.

He should have?? He was a passenger. While it may be a good
learning exercise (assuming he was even at that stage of his training),
I wouldn't expect a passenger to go to that kind of effort. If this
was a training flight with an actual instructor, that would be a
different story.

When I go along for a ride as a passenger, I don't flight plan a
proposed route. I let the PIC take care of that.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

"Jim Burns" wrote in message
...
The "he was a passenger" is a cop out. If you are a pilot, even a student
pilot with only 30 hours, and you are in the airplane, why wouldn't you do
everything you could to be prepared??

Perhaps because you understand the concept of PIC and take it seriously. So
you understand that the flight is not in any way your responsibility; and
you have no reason to doubt that the person who *is* responsible is capable
of doing the job. (Or if you *do* have reason to doubt that, then you
shouldn't agree to the trip no matter how "prepared" you are.)

--Gary

Jim Burns wrote:
The "he was a passenger" is a cop out. If you are a pilot, even a student
pilot with only 30 hours, and you are in the airplane, why wouldn't you do
everything you could to be prepared?? which to me starts at home with
flight planning.

I can see by this and your other post that you expect the student
pilot passenger to act more like a student than a passenger. That's
your perogative. Not being an instructor, I don't generally take that
approach. I don't insist that a student pilot riding with me do any
flight planning or learn anything at all. I'm not an instructor and
I'm not there to teach them anything. If they happen to learn
something on the flight, good for them. But I certainly wouldn't (as a
non-CFI) insist that any student that goes for a ride with me do
detailed flight planning or anything else. If they choose to do so,
that's fine, but when it comes right down to it, I'm the PIC and they
are just a passenger. I can provide them with some practical
experience, and they can take what they can from that, but I'm not
going to pretend to be their instructor.

At 30 hours, I would expect that the student pilot/passenger had completed
at least part of his cross country training, so I'd expect that if he had
agreed to do the hands on flying through that type of airspace that he would
take the effort to flight plan it also.
snip

If your assumptions are correct, perhaps you have a point. But
neither you nor I know what kind of 30 hr. student we're talking about.
There's the 30 hr. student that's flying solo X/C and there's the one
who flies once a month and hasn't soloed yet (i.e. clueless newbie).
The latter may not even be at the level of competently planning a
flight of this distance. I'm not going to judge him without more info.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

In article ,
"Jim Burns" wrote:

The "he was a passenger" is a cop out.

wrong.

What part of "passenger" don't you understand?

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule