Cross country question? How is it done today?

Yeah, what a maroon! BTW: I still have the CAD files.

On Thursday, September 12, 2013 12:06:47 PM UTC-4, Papa3 wrote:
I taught XC Ground School for several years. We covered the basics of course selection, navigation, off-field landings, etc.

The week after the whiz-wheel exercise, one of the students shows up at the next class all excited to share with us his creation (be forewarned - he's an engineer).

On Monday, September 16, 2013 2:30:01 PM UTC-4, flgliderpilot wrote:
I have had to use my map a few times already when the GPS provided erroneous data, so I only trust it when it sounds like it's being honest with me.

What kind of erroneous data did your GPS provide? Maybe you were being jammed by the Ruskies.

On Monday, September 16, 2013 6:20:58 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Monday, September 16, 2013 2:30:01 PM UTC-4, flgliderpilot wrote:

I have had to use my map a few times already when the GPS provided erroneous data, so I only trust it when it sounds like it's being honest with me.



What kind of erroneous data did your GPS provide? Maybe you were being jammed by the Ruskies.

Haha, well first for whatever reason it did not show the last airport in my list of turn points/landables even though it was programmed, so I had to pull out my map to find it.

Second time, it lost GPS signal and told me I would arrive 5000ft low to next turnpoint, which was impossible, I was only 6 miles away at 4000AGL. Eventually my GPS figured out where I already knew I was.

On Tuesday, September 17, 2013 10:20:07 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, September 16, 2013 6:20:58 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:

On Monday, September 16, 2013 2:30:01 PM UTC-4, flgliderpilot wrote:



I have had to use my map a few times already when the GPS provided erroneous data, so I only trust it when it sounds like it's being honest with me.







What kind of erroneous data did your GPS provide? Maybe you were being jammed by the Ruskies.



Haha, well first for whatever reason it did not show the last airport in my list of turn points/landables even though it was programmed, so I had to pull out my map to find it.

Second time, it lost GPS signal and told me I would arrive 5000ft low to next turnpoint, which was impossible, I was only 6 miles away at 4000AGL. Eventually my GPS figured out where I already knew I was.

Okay. I misunderstood. By GPS, you actually mean "Flight Computer" (or PNA) told you bogus info.

The only true GPS error that I am aware is a complete loss of signal and therefore loss of position data. Do GPS units ever give significant position errors?

The only true GPS error that I am aware is a complete loss of signal and therefore loss of position data. Do GPS units ever give significant position errors?

Sorry, I should have said flight computer.

On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 7:22:16 AM UTC-7, flgliderpilot wrote:
I am fairly green had my PGL for about 3 years now.



Been venturing into cross country, have done my first flight out to another airport, and last weekend, an out to that airport and return, about 30 miles round trip (in a 1-26, no ridges, it's all flat Florida). No it's not very far, but at least I am not just circling the airport for hours, and my enjoyment of soaring has been taken to a new level.



However, I was told recently by an older experienced pilot that using a GPS is "not the correct way to do it". Instead I should be thinking "can I get there... now can I get there... can I get there...". I understand this ideology, but I am pretty sure nearly everyone is using GPS these days.



So, does this mean I should not use modern navigation technology? I know how to plot a cross country flight on paper of course, and required altitudes to the next safe landing area.



Does this mean I should I actually be drawing circles on charts, carrying a slide ruler to calculate arrival height at various distances, and mechanically doing everything my GPS is doing for me? This means I am not looking for traffic, or thermalling but instead flipping through charts and playing with a slide ruler or E6B, and my eyes are not outside the canopy.



Anyway, please enlighten a new pilot, I am listening intently. if I should not be using a GPS at this point I'll go without.



Thanks

Tom

I believe that any new XC glider pilot should be skilled in the use of maps and basic glide calculation tools. Who can argue with that?

The issue becomes blurred when the performance of the glider increases along with the distances flown. And when you get into extreme gliding (1000k+ tasks and/or mountains) you throw all of these rules out the window! I have flown in places where your landout choice is down to one and the terrain in between makes mountain goats shudder. One best have a very high degree of confidence in one's glide!

By all means get a GPS (unless you are a Luddite) and get familiar with it. All of the concerns about batteries are from people who are unprepared. I loved the comment about if you can't make the landing field use the next closer one. This guy has NEVER flown in Nevada! As Eric wrote, measuring distances across a map flip in a glider is challenging, at best. The best argument for a GPS & glide computer is that they reduce pilot workload, allowing you to concentrate at the task at hand.

Thanks I am using LK8000 on a Mio Moov M400 PNA. I also carry a map, and a backup battery. For a battery, I carry this, which I purchased at home depot:

http://www.blessthisstuff.com/stuff/...t-by-mycharge/

I keep it in my shorts pocket, and run a USB cord to my PNA. It will run my PNA for a very very long time.

Eventually I'd like to have a connector installed so I can run my PNA from my 12V system, but for now the battery works well enough.

Hi Tom. We've never met although I have flown out of Seminole Lake in the past. Have an off topic question for you. I was wondering if you would compare the flying qualities of the 1-34 to your 1-26E for me? I got my first taste of flying the 1-26E at Chilhowee this summer and really enjoyed it. Aside from the superior glide performance of the 1-34, how do they compare otherwise? I've been thinking about going back to Seminole Lake to get checked out in their 1-34 and would appreciate your feedback. Thank you, Brian Lott.

On Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:59:59 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Hi Tom. We've never met although I have flown out of Seminole Lake in the past. Have an off topic question for you. I was wondering if you would compare the flying qualities of the 1-34 to your 1-26E for me? I got my first taste of flying the 1-26E at Chilhowee this summer and really enjoyed it. Aside from the superior glide performance of the 1-34, how do they compare otherwise? I've been thinking about going back to Seminole Lake to get checked out in their 1-34 and would appreciate your feedback. Thank you, Brian Lott.

Hi Brian, I don't want to drag the thread off topic, so I am going email you directly.

Tom

On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 7:22:16 AM UTC-7, flgliderpilot wrote:
I am fairly green had my PGL for about 3 years now.



Been venturing into cross country, have done my first flight out to another airport, and last weekend, an out to that airport and return, about 30 miles round trip (in a 1-26, no ridges, it's all flat Florida). No it's not very far, but at least I am not just circling the airport for hours, and my enjoyment of soaring has been taken to a new level.



However, I was told recently by an older experienced pilot that using a GPS is "not the correct way to do it". Instead I should be thinking "can I get there... now can I get there... can I get there...". I understand this ideology, but I am pretty sure nearly everyone is using GPS these days.



So, does this mean I should not use modern navigation technology? I know how to plot a cross country flight on paper of course, and required altitudes to the next safe landing area.



Does this mean I should I actually be drawing circles on charts, carrying a slide ruler to calculate arrival height at various distances, and mechanically doing everything my GPS is doing for me? This means I am not looking for traffic, or thermalling but instead flipping through charts and playing with a slide ruler or E6B, and my eyes are not outside the canopy.



Anyway, please enlighten a new pilot, I am listening intently. if I should not be using a GPS at this point I'll go without.



Thanks

Tom

Just my 5 c worth;
Always should consider to land on an airport-as a first choice (much preferred on the west coast- suitable landing spots are few and far in between and they change)
Have the basic good knowledge as to how many feet YOUR glider will loose per thousand feet.
Always carry current sectionals or at least world aeronautical charts .
Than get yourself a flight computer; SeeYou mobil, WinPilot, XCSoar etc they all basically do the same but at least if nothing else get a small pocket GPS.
Using these charts would be a last resort if all else fails ( but still have them) unless; you are near class B, C airpspaces and wish to navigate over, under or around them than utilizing a Terminal Area chart is a MUST flight computer or not!
Again it is a myth that looking or glancing at a PDA or PNA is more distracting than charts, it is by far the other way around.
Beside a PNA I downloaded XCSoar(free) onto my Android phone and will use it as a back up if need be far sooner than resorting to a chart(except a TCA).
In the many years of straight out cross country flying I can count on one hand how many times I landed on other than an airport.
However if you were to fly out here in the west at the least I would strongly encourage anyone to set foot and evaluate the landings sites first before considering landing on them.
6PK