Temporarily removing fuel and replacing it into the same aircraft

"150flivver" wrote

I don't know of anything that
prohibits a private owner from defueling his part 91 aircraft and
refueling it with the properly stored "used" fuel. Common sense
requires the fuel to be kept free of contamination and proper safety
measures utilized in the refueling process.

From the things I have seen, there is even more danger in defueling. There can
be considerable static electricity generated in fuel falling into a fuel
container.

Planes have been burned to the ground, and the hangar with it. I'm sorry, but I
don't remember where I read these articles.
--
Jim in NC

In article ,
"Morgans" wrote:

"150flivver" wrote

I don't know of anything that
prohibits a private owner from defueling his part 91 aircraft and
refueling it with the properly stored "used" fuel. Common sense
requires the fuel to be kept free of contamination and proper safety
measures utilized in the refueling process.

From the things I have seen, there is even more danger in defueling.
There can be considerable static electricity generated in fuel falling
into a fuel container.

Google for "Kelvin water dropper experiment".

I think the key is to make sure that the airplane and the container are in
good electrical contact with each other. Just like you see the line guys
do every time they fuel your plane from the truck.

wrote in message
...

My friendly-neighborhood AIRPORT manager tried to mandate no self-fueling
of aircraft shortly after we shelled out just
shy of $2000 for an autogas STC for our PA-28-180. I pointed him in the
direction of the regulations regarding restrictions on
public airports that accept federal funding. Included in those (can't
find the link at the moment) is a requirement that pilots
can fuel their own aircraft for non-commercial use. Non-issue after that.

-Cory

The FAA doc is AC 150/5190-6
http://tinyurl.com/yo2ezv
John Severyn
KLVK Livermore, Ca.

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:33:28 -0400, B A R R Y
wrote:

Does anyone know of a FAR that prohibits removing fuel, avgas in this
case, and then putting it back into the same plane? The plane is flown
for part 91 service only.

Examples:

1.) The plane is 50 pounds overweight for conditions. 10 gallons is
siphoned out into a clean, single-purpose, approved for gasoline
container. The sealed container is stored in a safe place. 2-3 hours
later, upon completing the trip and returning to the field, I pour it
back into the tank.

2.) I want to calibrate a fuel dipstick, so I remove a gallon at a time
while taking readings. After I read the tank, I return the fuel to the
tank.

I've been told this is a violation. The person who tells me this can't
cite a FAR, and I can't find one in my own search.

barry
you cant do it with people in the aircraft. that is in the regs.

when you do it make sure you have an earth connection between the
aircraft and the container. this can be as simple as a piece of fence
wire in the container touching the aircraft so as to bleed static
differences between the two. more elaborate would be a piece of
automotive wire with a crocodile clip on each end clipped between the
aircraft and the container.
with static taken care of you worst problem is spillage.

when you have the time go and get a copy of the regs and read them
yourself. it isnt difficult to understand them and you will have in
your memory an authoritative picture of them. the world gets easier
after that.

when you put the fuel back into the aircraft just pour it through a
funnel with a micromesh filter in it, they are as cheap as chips in
discount automotive shops and they exclude crud and water.

Stealth Pilot

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

So what. If it is against FAA rules tell the manager that if he would kindly
show you the rule you will be more than happy not to do it. If it is aganist
an airport rule then he and you should do the same.

That's the plan! If there is a FAR against returning the removed fuel
to the aircraft, I'd gladly respect it, without having to be told.
Since my own research turned up nothing, I pick the vast expertise of
knowledge here. G

I like to have my ducks in a row without causing a rub. The manager who
works for the state agency that owns the airport doesn't have single
problem with any of this. The "expert" is a self-employed mechanic,
related to the manager of the FBO who runs the field, and I'd prefer to
continue the good relationship I have with both of them.

Airport rules prohibit storing fuel cans in hangars, so I wouldn't do
that. There is no airport rule against gas cans in or on vehicles, or
fuel transfer tanks, ala Jay's "Grape". Several local pilots are
various sorts of contractors (landscape, tree surgeon, builders, heavy
equipment repair...) and have had many gas and diesel cans in the
parking lot, on business trucks and trailers.

Thanks!

Maxwell wrote:

Defueling is common practice in the airline business. We always defueled
before bringing in both narrow and wide body aircraft. I feel certain they
reused the same fuel.

Now that you mention that, I seem to remember a crewmember telling me
how the MD-88 I was aboard was ferrying fuel from DFW to SJO.

Thanks for all the GREAT info!

FWIW, I found the best way to de-fuel my plane is through the carb.
Unfortunately, it renders the fuel unusable, but it's alot of fun.


"B A R R Y" wrote in message
news


Thanks for all the GREAT info!

El Maximo wrote:
FWIW, I found the best way to de-fuel my plane is through the carb.
Unfortunately, it renders the fuel unusable, but it's alot of fun.

Me too, but when you're 50 pounds over, and don't have the extra hour...

In rec.aviation.owning Stealth Pilot wrote:
: when you do it make sure you have an earth connection between the
: aircraft and the container. this can be as simple as a piece of fence
: wire in the container touching the aircraft so as to bleed static
: differences between the two. more elaborate would be a piece of
: automotive wire with a crocodile clip on each end clipped between the
: aircraft and the container.
: with static taken care of you worst problem is spillage.

: when you have the time go and get a copy of the regs and read them
: yourself. it isnt difficult to understand them and you will have in
: your memory an authoritative picture of them. the world gets easier
: after that.

: when you put the fuel back into the aircraft just pour it through a
: funnel with a micromesh filter in it, they are as cheap as chips in
: discount automotive shops and they exclude crud and water.

: Stealth Pilot

My setup for doing this is the same as what I use to haul cargas to the airport for my plane. I
use a few plastic, 6-gallon cans. To minimize the risk of contamination (from bad service station fuel
with sludge, water, stuff in the cans, etc), I rigged a water-absorbing spin-on fuel filter with a
pour-spout that will screw into the can. Then I just move the filtering pour spout from one can to the
other as I dump it in.

I minimize the electrical arcing risk by *ALWAYS* touching the filtering pour spout (which is
metal BTW) with one hand while I touch the wing with my other some distance away from the fuel tank
filler neck. Then while tipping the can into the neck, I maintain grounding with my fingers until the
metal spout makes contact with the plane. Sounds complicated, but it's not... prevents the possibility
of arcing where it counts (at the filler neck) even with plastic fuel containers.

I've never found any crude in sumping the tanks since I started using the filter 4 years ago.
Before then there was always a bit of water and the occasional bits of particles from the cargas.
Defueling and refueling just means one more trip through the filtering pour spout.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
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