P-39s, Zeros & A-24s

Little item from my friend doing P-39 research:

7 P-39s escort 7 A-24s on an anti-shipping strike to Buna summer 1942. Flying
at 9,000 feet, 3 Zeros going the opposite direction at 11,000 feet spot them
and peel off in an attack. Descending dogfight ensues until Zeros break off at
4,000 feet. P-39 pilots make no claims, report no losses among themselves or
A-24s, which they catch up to as they make their bomb runs on a convoy of one
large and four small vessels escorted by one warship which they identify as a
destroyer. The flight home is uneventful, with no further enemy contact. They
confirm one bomb hit on the large ship, which seems to inflict no serious
damage, and six broad misses.
A-24s do not report any interception by Zeros on the way to the target and
mention no dogfight. Report attacking one 1,500 ton-class cargo ship in a
convoy of four 100-ton class coastal vessels and one subchaser escort. AA fire
downs one A-24 during the dive. This plane releases its bomb as it spins out
of control and crashes into the sea. No parachutes. It's bomb falls far from
the convoy. Five bombs bracket the large cargo vessel in a close pattern and
one strikes the ship amidships. This ship is left on fire, dead in the water,
heeled over and in a sinking condition. As they recover from their dives, the
A-24s are hit by Zeros. Two are shot down immediately, crashing in flames into
sea. Two more survive long enough to make it to the beach where they crash
land and the crews are observed to escape into the bush. A fifth is badly
damaged but manages to make it to an emergency strip where it crash lands.
Only one returns home.
The next day 4 B-25s go out to bomb the convoy but find no sign of it. Nor do
they see any debris or oil slick in the area of the A-24 attack. They were to
have a P-39 escort but it never shows up. They are intercepted by 6 Zeros
which circle them, then fly parallel to them for a few minutes performing slow
rolls before departing without making any attempt to attack. The B-25s sweep up
the Buna coast until they spot 6 beached barges being unloaded. They bomb and
strafe these, destroying them and the cargo offloaded onto the beach. They
report moderate AA fire, with one B-25 being holed several times and the
bombardier and co-pilot wounded. There is no fighter opposition.
The 6 P-39s dispatched as escorts report the B-25s are not at the rendevous
point so they proceed on a sweep of the Buna coastal area, discover Japanese
unloading 5 barges and strafe them, leaving all burning. They also strafe
supplies stacked on the beach and tents observed under trees just inland from
the beach, making repeated passes until expending all their ammunition. There
is no anti-aircraft fire. As they are departing they observe 9 Zeros
patrolling the beach at 6,000 feet but these make no aggressive moves and
maintain altitude.

If you were an intelligence officer evaluating these reports, what would you
make of them?


Chris Mark

Intel hasn't gotten much better since 1942.

WDA

end

"Chris Mark" wrote in message
...
Little item from my friend doing P-39 research:

7 P-39s escort 7 A-24s on an anti-shipping strike to Buna
summer 1942. Flying
at 9,000 feet, 3 Zeros going the opposite direction at
11,000 feet spot them
and peel off in an attack. Descending dogfight ensues
until Zeros break off at
4,000 feet. P-39 pilots make no claims, report no losses
among themselves or
A-24s, which they catch up to as they make their bomb runs
on a convoy of one
large and four small vessels escorted by one warship which
they identify as a
destroyer. The flight home is uneventful, with no further
enemy contact. They
confirm one bomb hit on the large ship, which seems to
inflict no serious
damage, and six broad misses.
A-24s do not report any interception by Zeros on the way
to the target and
mention no dogfight. Report attacking one 1,500 ton-class
cargo ship in a
convoy of four 100-ton class coastal vessels and one
subchaser escort. AA fire
downs one A-24 during the dive. This plane releases its
bomb as it spins out
of control and crashes into the sea. No parachutes. It's
bomb falls far from
the convoy. Five bombs bracket the large cargo vessel in
a close pattern and
one strikes the ship amidships. This ship is left on fire,
dead in the water,
heeled over and in a sinking condition. As they recover
from their dives, the
A-24s are hit by Zeros. Two are shot down immediately,
crashing in flames into
sea. Two more survive long enough to make it to the beach
where they crash
land and the crews are observed to escape into the bush.
A fifth is badly
damaged but manages to make it to an emergency strip where
it crash lands.
Only one returns home.
The next day 4 B-25s go out to bomb the convoy but find no
sign of it. Nor do
they see any debris or oil slick in the area of the A-24
attack. They were to
have a P-39 escort but it never shows up. They are
intercepted by 6 Zeros
which circle them, then fly parallel to them for a few
minutes performing slow
rolls before departing without making any attempt to
attack. The B-25s sweep up
the Buna coast until they spot 6 beached barges being
unloaded. They bomb and
strafe these, destroying them and the cargo offloaded onto
the beach. They
report moderate AA fire, with one B-25 being holed several
times and the
bombardier and co-pilot wounded. There is no fighter
opposition.
The 6 P-39s dispatched as escorts report the B-25s are not
at the rendevous
point so they proceed on a sweep of the Buna coastal area,
discover Japanese
unloading 5 barges and strafe them, leaving all burning.
They also strafe
supplies stacked on the beach and tents observed under
trees just inland from
the beach, making repeated passes until expending all
their ammunition. There
is no anti-aircraft fire. As they are departing they
observe 9 Zeros
patrolling the beach at 6,000 feet but these make no
aggressive moves and
maintain altitude.

If you were an intelligence officer evaluating these
reports, what would you
make of them?


Chris Mark

"W. D. Allen Sr." wrote:
Intel hasn't gotten much better since 1942.

WDA

end

"Chris Mark" wrote in
message
...
Little item from my friend doing P-39 research:

7 P-39s escort 7 A-24s on an anti-shipping
strike to Buna
summer 1942. Flying
at 9,000 feet, 3 Zeros going the opposite
direction at
11,000 feet spot them
and peel off in an attack. Descending dogfight
ensues
until Zeros break off at
4,000 feet. P-39 pilots make no claims, report
no losses
among themselves or
A-24s, which they catch up to as they make
their bomb runs
on a convoy of one
large and four small vessels escorted by one
warship which
they identify as a
destroyer. The flight home is uneventful,
with no further
enemy contact. They
confirm one bomb hit on the large ship, which
seems to
inflict no serious
damage, and six broad misses.
A-24s do not report any interception by Zeros
on the way
to the target and
mention no dogfight. Report attacking one
1,500 ton-class
cargo ship in a
convoy of four 100-ton class coastal vessels
and one
subchaser escort. AA fire
downs one A-24 during the dive. This plane
releases its
bomb as it spins out
of control and crashes into the sea. No parachutes.
It's
bomb falls far from
the convoy. Five bombs bracket the large
cargo vessel in
a close pattern and
one strikes the ship amidships. This ship
is left on fire,
dead in the water,
heeled over and in a sinking condition. As
they recover
from their dives, the
A-24s are hit by Zeros. Two are shot down
immediately,
crashing in flames into
sea. Two more survive long enough to make
it to the beach
where they crash
land and the crews are observed to escape
into the bush.
A fifth is badly
damaged but manages to make it to an emergency
strip where
it crash lands.
Only one returns home.
The next day 4 B-25s go out to bomb the convoy
but find no
sign of it. Nor do
they see any debris or oil slick in the area
of the A-24
attack. They were to
have a P-39 escort but it never shows up.
They are
intercepted by 6 Zeros
which circle them, then fly parallel to them
for a few
minutes performing slow
rolls before departing without making any
attempt to
attack. The B-25s sweep up
the Buna coast until they spot 6 beached barges
being
unloaded. They bomb and
strafe these, destroying them and the cargo
offloaded onto
the beach. They
report moderate AA fire, with one B-25 being
holed several
times and the
bombardier and co-pilot wounded. There is
no fighter
opposition.
The 6 P-39s dispatched as escorts report the
B-25s are not
at the rendevous
point so they proceed on a sweep of the Buna
coastal area,
discover Japanese
unloading 5 barges and strafe them, leaving
all burning.
They also strafe
supplies stacked on the beach and tents observed
under
trees just inland from
the beach, making repeated passes until expending
all
their ammunition. There
is no anti-aircraft fire. As they are departing
they
observe 9 Zeros
patrolling the beach at 6,000 feet but these
make no
aggressive moves and
maintain altitude.

If you were an intelligence officer evaluating
these
reports, what would you
make of them?


Chris Mark


I'm not sure. In the days before gun-camera video, I don't know how they
got any good intel. Keep in mind that the 5th AF in Summer of '42 was still
operating on a shoestring, with what refugees from the Philippines and the
East Indies working with the reinforcements that were headed for Manila but
diverted to Australia-they were still getting things set up and running.
ULTRA might be a source to confirm the BDA, but was 5th AF cleared for it
at the time?

Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access!

Amazing story, and no doubt typical. I never regret reading the official and unofficial reports in Japanese as well as the Allied ones. Boy, I would not want to write any 'definitive' history of anything to do with the South Pacific campaign!

--
G Hassenpflug * IJN & JMSDF equipment/history fan

On 13 Jul 2003 18:13:44 GMT, ost (Chris Mark) wrote:

They are intercepted by 6 Zeros
which circle them, then fly parallel to them for a few minutes performing slow
rolls before departing without making any attempt to attack

Wonderful! I wonder how often such things happened? And what would be
the reason--that they were off on a mission & couldn't expend
ammunition, or they were returning with empty guns?


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at http://www.danford.net/index.htm
Vietnam | Flying Tigers | Pacific War | Brewster Buffalo | Piper Cub

rom: Cub Driver look@my

they were returning with empty guns?

Certainly a possibility. Even if they still had ammo for their cowl guns they
might have learned by that time in the war that attacking an alert and ready
B-25 formation with 30 cals was pretty pointless. The B-25 turret gunners
alone would have outmatched them. The C model had 3/4" steel plate armor
across the rear of the radio compartment bulkhead, thus protecting the interior
of the fuselage from gunfire from the rear. It would have easily stopped light
machinegun fire.

Somewhere I've got an account of a B-25-Zero duel. If I find it I'll post
pertinent parts. It was written by Hobart Skidmore. He was a combat
correspondent who probably saw a lot more of the air war than most air crew.
He was always ready to go and went out on night B-17 raids to Rabaul, B-25 and
B-26 raids against Lae and Salamaua, C-47 supply drops to Aussie troops on the
Kokoda Track, you name it.
I heard that many years after the war he began to suffer from nightmares about
his war experiences so terrible that they drove him to suicide. Don't know if
that is really true.


Chris Mark

ubject: P-39s, Zeros & A-24s
From: ost (Chris Mark)
Date: 7/14/03 1:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

he B-25 turret gunners
alone would have outmatched them. The C model had 3/4" steel plate armor
across the rear of the radio compartment bulkhead, thus protecting the
interior
of the fuselage from gunfire from the rear. It would have easily

Oh yeah ! Well I had 1/4" Plexiglas protectig me. Try and beat that. !!!




Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

From: artkramr@

Oh yeah ! Well I had 1/4" Plexiglas protectig me. Try and beat that. !!!

Look on the bright side. At least you could see where you were going! ; )




Chris Mark

ArtKramr wrote:

Oh yeah ! Well I had 1/4" Plexiglas protectig me. Try and beat that. !!!

I've read that some Lancaster rear gunners would remove the "clear
vision" panel in the turret, between the guns, so as to remove the risk
of condensation or frost degrading their view. I know they had
electrically heated clothing, but even so !

Subject: P-39s, Zeros & A-24s
From: Alan Dicey
Date: 7/20/03 4:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

ArtKramr wrote:

Oh yeah ! Well I had 1/4" Plexiglas protectig me. Try and beat that. !!!

I've read that some Lancaster rear gunners would remove the "clear
vision" panel in the turret, between the guns, so as to remove the risk
of condensation or frost degrading their view. I know they had
electrically heated clothing, but even so !



We also had electric suits but I never remember my Plexi fogging up. If it did
I could just open the little vent flap and let a180 MPH relative wind come in
and blow my maps, charts, calculators, E6B and Wheems plotters all over the
place. (sheesh)


Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer