FLARM.....for good, or evil??

From Sept 2010 "Soaring"...article on FLARM...

...."we were flying in big undiciplined gaggles"...

...."I received indications about one idiot who pulled in behind and
then passed 10 feet over me."...

...."I received many beeps from gliders following 20 feet behind and
just outside..."


Holy close call Batman! ..Undiciplined??!! .. Idiot??!! .. 10
feet over??!!.. 20 feet??!!


Are you thinking what I'm thinking???

Cookie

On Oct 26, 6:53*am, "
wrote:
From Sept 2010 "Soaring"...article on FLARM...

..."we were flying in big undiciplined gaggles"...

..."I received indications about one idiot who pulled in behind and
then passed 10 feet over me."...

..."I received many beeps from gliders following 20 feet behind and
just outside..."

Holy close call Batman! *..Undiciplined??!! .. * Idiot??!! * .. 10
feet over??!!.. * 20 feet??!!

*Are you thinking what I'm thinking???

Cookie

Well, I'm thinking I'm glad to be alive. I'm thinking that I like the
trend in US contest rules that take us away from mass gaggle flying,
and wish the worlds would take a stab in that direction as well. I'm
thinking flarm is a pretty darn good idea. What are you thinking?

John Cochrane

We have placed FLARM information on our web site home page.

Go to: www.eglider.org

At the top of the page, click on "News Articles"

You will find a link to the my recent newsletter about FLARM.

You will also find other articles of interest, many safety related.

Tom Knauff

When in a large gaggle Flarm is next to useless, more of a distraction;
that's why it has a 5 minute mute function. In the big gaggle ignore
Flarm and keep your eyes scanning outside.

At 14:08 26 October 2010, John Cochrane wrote:
On Oct 26, 6:53=A0am, "
wrote:
From Sept 2010 "Soaring"...article on FLARM...

..."we were flying in big undiciplined gaggles"...

..."I received indications about one idiot who pulled in behind and
then passed 10 feet over me."...

..."I received many beeps from gliders following 20 feet behind and
just outside..."

Holy close call Batman! =A0..Undiciplined??!! .. =A0 Idiot??!! =A0 ..
10
feet over??!!.. =A0 20 feet??!!

=A0Are you thinking what I'm thinking???

Cookie

Well, I'm thinking I'm glad to be alive. I'm thinking that I like the
trend in US contest rules that take us away from mass gaggle flying,
and wish the worlds would take a stab in that direction as well. I'm
thinking flarm is a pretty darn good idea. What are you thinking?

John Cochrane

Mark Dickson wrote:
When in a large gaggle Flarm is next to useless, more of a distraction;
that's why it has a 5 minute mute function. In the big gaggle ignore
Flarm and keep your eyes scanning outside.

Let me guess: You haven't ever flown with FLARM yet, have you?

At 15:21 26 October 2010, John Smith wrote:
Mark Dickson wrote:
When in a large gaggle Flarm is next to useless,
more of a distraction;
that's why it has a 5 minute mute function. In the
big gaggle ignore
Flarm and keep your eyes scanning outside.

Let me guess: You haven't ever flown with FLARM
yet, have you?


I fly with Flarm (admittedly just one competition so
far, quite a bit of general cross-country) and find in
large gaggles I'm too busy looking at the other
gliders to notice it. If you get a ping you've hopefully
already noted the hazard and have started to react to
it. I don't use mute, I just mentally tune it out. It
certainly doesn't contribute much to situational
awareness in that situation.

It's only really useful in my experience for warning
you about the glider you haven't seen, probably
because you don't expect him to be there. For
instance, you're on cross-country on your own, miles
from any gliding site and someone else turns up in
your thermal. Unlike in a competition, this could be
from any direction. Or (this has happened to me),
you're on final glide near cloud base to an airfield to
the south, and someone else is on a final glide to a
different airfield to the north, both following the same
energy line. Another one is in wave, working close to
the leading edge of the cloud.

You can tell people who haven't flown with Flarm-
they're the ones who don't think they need it.

Hi Gang
Surely flying in a thermal with a gaggle of other gliders is
suicidal period. And what use is a Flarm in those conditions? I have a
Phoenix on order and am anticipating putting a PowerFlarm in it. Why?
Because the PowerFlarm has a PCAS function in addition to the Flarm
function and the PowerFlarm costs only a little more than a Zaon PCAS.
I do think the mandatory use of Flarm is a good idea for comps
especially if one can inexpensively rent a Flarm. But outside of comps
with the flying I do having a transponder is by far the most important
piece of safety equipment I have on board. A PCAS is also worth
having. Having a Flarm? It is a useless device until the use of Flarm
by the gliding community reaches critical mass (usage). That is
unlikely to happen here in the US for several years at best. And then
what about GA? What good is Flarm for GA? They are never going to use
it in the US. The FAA has another system in store for GA and
commercial aircraft.
Dave

Of course I have, in comps on numerous occasions. I'm assuming you
haven't.

At 15:21 26 October 2010, John Smith wrote:
Mark Dickson wrote:
When in a large gaggle Flarm is next to useless, more of a
distraction;
that's why it has a 5 minute mute function. In the big gaggle ignore
Flarm and keep your eyes scanning outside.

Let me guess: You haven't ever flown with FLARM yet, have you?

Mark Dickson wrote:
Of course I have, in comps on numerous occasions. I'm assuming you
haven't.

At 15:21 26 October 2010, John Smith wrote:
Mark Dickson wrote:
When in a large gaggle Flarm is next to useless, more of a
distraction;
that's why it has a 5 minute mute function. In the big gaggle ignore
Flarm and keep your eyes scanning outside.

Let me guess: You haven't ever flown with FLARM yet, have you?

I like those top-posts. They make followin a discussion so much more
interesting. Anyway:

Of course FLARM is useless in a gaggle. The very fact that you care to
mention this made me believe that you haven't flown with one. And of
course scanning outside ist the primary strategy for see and avoid, in a
gaggle or not, even with FLARM installed.

However, I don't understand why FLARM should be distracting in a gaggle.
In a gaggle, mine is quiet unless a new glider joins. Or have you set
yours to announce all traffic instead of only the conflicting? You know
that you can change this mode by the push of a button?

On Oct 26, 10:07*am, Mark Dickson wrote:
When in a large gaggle Flarm is next to useless, more of a distraction;
that's why it has a 5 minute mute function. *In the big gaggle ignore
Flarm and keep your eyes scanning outside. *

I have heard other say this, but that's not been my experience. My
eyes don't see behind or below my glider, no matter how hard I look. I
found flarm useful precisely in the huge mothers of all gaggles at
Szeged. Sure, there's a little extra beeping but the really insistent
BEEP BEEP BEEP with three lit up LEDs only happens when you really
need to know about it, even in a big gaggle. And I also found very
little head-in-cockpit distraction with flarm. I looked outside all
the time, when huge beeps came about 1/10 second to glance at the LEDs
for the direction of the threat, then back out.

John Cochrane