VWs

wrote:
Has anyone ever tried adapting aero head designs to the VW block and
cylinders?

An interesting experiment if you had cash and time on your hands. It
seems from what veeduber writes that this is a matter of cooling
efficiency for durability, rather than HP or torque per se.

You would have to replace the jug and head to match the aero design. And
then why? So that you could mate you're new heads to a cylinder block
that has been known to crack just sitting on a shelf waiting to be
installed? The VW engine for aircraft is about simple and relatively
cheap power for simple and relatively cheap airplanes. Designing,
building and flying your own heads is not simple or cheap.

Charles

You would have to replace the jug and head to match the aero design. And
then why? So that you could mate you're new heads to a cylinder block
that has been known to crack just sitting on a shelf waiting to be
installed? *The VW engine for aircraft is about simple and relatively
cheap power for simple and relatively cheap airplanes. *Designing,
building and flying your own heads is not simple or cheap.

Charles

Maybe this part of what I wrote didn't penetrate through your skull:

An interesting experiment if you had cash and time on your hands.

A VW conversion for flying is for whatever the hell you want it to be
for. Like experimenting -- if you've got the time and inclination.
I've got the inclination. When I want to know what *you* think is a
legitimate pursuit in the experimental aircraft arena I'll ask.

wrote:


Maybe this part of what I wrote didn't penetrate through your skull:

An interesting experiment if you had cash and time on your hands.

I got that point, but assumed your goal was a cost effective reliable
powerplant -- whatever the mission profile of your aircraft. These are
general goals within aviation, but you may set your own divergent goals
obviously.


A VW conversion for flying is for whatever the hell you want it to be
for. Like experimenting -- if you've got the time and inclination.
I've got the inclination.

Great. It also takes skill and knowledge- otherwise you might as well
spend your time testing if twenty dollar bills burn faster than singles.
In your world it seems all it takes is someone good with CAD and a
friend with a CNC machine.

When I want to know what *you* think is a
legitimate pursuit in the experimental aircraft arena I'll ask.


Isn't that what you did? If not, why post the results of your mental
masturbation here? Or do you just have to have an audience to explore
your own ignorance? Veeduber has pointed out the VW design is thermally
limited. This does not mean it is not mechanically limited as well.
Figure out a way for the heads to sustain 80HP and see how long the
stock VW case hold up. Ever ask about what actually gets rebuilt when
you rebuild an 80HP flying VW?

Charles

On Jan 29, 5:54 am, " wrote:
On Jan 29, 2:29 am, "oilsardine" wrote:

compared to the '85 HP aircraft cylinder head' the VW head doesn't look so
bad after all...
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks can be deceiving.

The maximum output of the carburetted 1600cc VW engine was the 1971
model which could produce about 57bhp... for about ONE MINUTE.
Maximum SUSTAINED output (ie, CHT of 450F) was about 44bhp under
Standard Day conditions. At that level of output you could expect the
exhaust valves to drop out of spec after about 200 hours. NOMINAL
output of the 1600VW was about 15bhp, which allowed the exhaust valves
to survive for up to 1000 hours (although 600 t0 750 was more the
norm). After-market 'hot-rod' heads do even worse since they have
less fin area. Volkswagen dealers commonly swapped-out worn heads
without bothering to inform the owner, other than to list their
replacement in the 'OTHER SERVICE - AS REQUIRED' block on the work-
order.

To understand why the VW head does so poorly simply compare it to the
early 1500cc (85hp) Porsche heads. Then compare those to the Corvair.

-R.S.Hoover

PS -- Here in the States many VW owners insist their vehicle NEVER
required anything other than normal maintenance when in fact,
examination of its service records usually shows periodic replacement
of heads, carb, distributor, clutch and oil pump with rebuilt units,
all for a nominal charge, when the vehicle was brought in for service.

I'm building or should be building) a Hummel Bird, which
uses a half-VW conversion. What's your take on these things, seeing
that you have lots of VW experience? My experience with VWs is limited
to my first car, a '62 Beetle that I spent lots of time fixing, and a
friend's '59 van. Ditto. Scott Casler claims 37 HP from a 1037 CC two-
banger. Sounds high.
For those interested, here's the website: http://www.hummelengines.com/
Click on the "Hummer 2 Cylinder VW"

Dan

Isn't that what you did? If not, why post the results of your mental
masturbation here?

Why are you being such an aggressive prick?

Can't you help yourself?

wrote:

To understand why the VW head does so poorly simply compare it to the
early 1500cc (85hp) Porsche heads. Then compare those to the Corvair.

-R.S.Hoover

Out of curiosity what is your opinion of the Corvair engine?

Tony

For everyone else, as I said at the out-set this isn't a new topic.
Dig around, you'll find lots of valuable, quantified information here
and in the archives of the AirVW Group. *You will also find lots of
-R.S.Hoover

I'm not finding a way into AirVW group on yahoo. Members only -- and
no way to become a member!

Guess Yahoo doesn't want to maintain it.

On Jan 29, 3:39*pm, wrote:
For everyone else, as I said at the out-set this isn't a new topic.
Dig around, you'll find lots of valuable, quantified information here
and in the archives of the AirVW Group. *You will also find lots of
-R.S.Hoover

I'm not finding a way into AirVW group on yahoo. Members only -- and
no way to become a member!

Guess Yahoo doesn't want to maintain it.

Nevermind I found it. There's a dash in there.

On Jan 29, 6:27*pm, cavalamb himself wrote:
wrote:
Isn't that what you did? If not, why post the results of your mental
masturbation here?

Why are you being such an aggressive prick?

Can't you help yourself?

I think that's the question everybody here is asking about you.

Me?

Because I ask some questions this guy "Charles Vincent" berates me and
says I'm posting my mental masturbations because it's insane to spend
money putting aero engine type heads on a VW case (that cracks just
sitting on the shelf).

Fine. Whatever.

I'm not spewing off "facts" about VW engines. I'm not defending claims
of 80 to 100 HP engines. I'm asking questions. Not everybody has been
coming to rec.aviation.homebuilt for years on end, so they don't
necessarily know that VWs have heating problems when running 80HP, or
that this subject is old hat. You go to Great Plains and they *sure*
don't mention overheating. They talk about 80 to 100HP like it's
commonplace. Their 2007 catalog advertised "liquid cooled heads" that
generated 120 HP. Yeah, well.

I come here because I want to hear if that is so from people with
experience.

Luckily for me RS Hoover has taken the time to actually be helpful. He
sounds like he's been building VWs and messing with them in airplanes
for many years. It looks like Dale Alexander has had a lot of
experience with VWs too. I can't tell yet who else responding to this
thread actually has built or used VWs in airplanes. Those are the
people I'm interested in hearing from and whose opinions I'd like to
hear.

If you haven't actually built or flow a VW in an aircraft, then I'm
not soliciting your opinion.

Has "Charles Vincent" ever built VWs? Flown them in aircraft? I don't
know. His posts haven't been helpful at all. Just mean.

Does "cavelamb himself" have any experience building VWs? Flown them
in aircraft? I don't know. I can't tell.

All I was after in the OP was what RS Hoover has answered, and Dale
Alexander has expanded on.

Thanks, Bob. Thanks, Dale. I can actually learn things from people
like you. It's why I posted to begin with.

wrote in message
...
...

Has anyone ever tried adapting aero head designs to the VW block and
cylinders?


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