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Seems a little strange-



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 25th 05, 07:37 AM
Capt.Doug
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Default Seems a little strange-

It seems a little strange when Havana Center says "Cleared to flight level
three zero zero". It seems a little strange going eastbound at FL 310. It
seems a little strange when Atlanta Center actually has a different altitude
available while going to O'Hare. It seems very strange when another airliner
passes within a 1000' at FL 360.

I just finished my first trip with RVSM (Conveniently sitting on a Caribbean
island while many of ya'll got snowed on- Nah Nah!). It didn't take long to
overcome the strangeness and appreciate the new way (unlike when they
started calling airspace by classes).

It is good, unless you are one of the uncertified stuck at FL280. A friend
in Washington DC related to me that after the inauguration there was a
logjam of airplanes waiting to depart at FL280 while his RVSM ride went
around all of them for a hasty departure. Another friend who drives a Lear
is stuck at 280 and can barely make TEB from MIA now.

D.


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  #2  
Old January 25th 05, 10:02 PM
zatatime
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Default

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 06:37:40 GMT, "Capt.Doug"
wrote:

It seems a little strange when Havana Center says "Cleared to flight level
three zero zero". It seems a little strange going eastbound at FL 310. It
seems a little strange when Atlanta Center actually has a different altitude
available while going to O'Hare. It seems very strange when another airliner
passes within a 1000' at FL 360.

I just finished my first trip with RVSM (Conveniently sitting on a Caribbean
island while many of ya'll got snowed on- Nah Nah!). It didn't take long to
overcome the strangeness and appreciate the new way (unlike when they
started calling airspace by classes).

It is good, unless you are one of the uncertified stuck at FL280. A friend
in Washington DC related to me that after the inauguration there was a
logjam of airplanes waiting to depart at FL280 while his RVSM ride went
around all of them for a hasty departure. Another friend who drives a Lear
is stuck at 280 and can barely make TEB from MIA now.

D.



Care to elaborate for us non-flight level flyers why FL280 is now some
sort of magic number? I didn't know you needed a special endorsement
to fly higher than that.

TIA,
z
  #3  
Old January 25th 05, 10:45 PM
jsmith
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Default

Domestic Reduced Vertical Separation M?? begins at FL280.
Prior to January 20, 2005, vertical separation between aircraft above
FL280 was 2000 feet. As of 20 January 2005, the vertical separation
between aircraft at FL280 and above is 1000 feet. Only aircraft properly
equipped for DRVSM are permitted to fly above FL280.

  #4  
Old January 26th 05, 12:03 AM
Bob Noel
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Default

In article , jsmith
wrote:

Domestic Reduced Vertical Separation M?? begins at FL280.
Prior to January 20, 2005, vertical separation between aircraft above
FL280 was 2000 feet. As of 20 January 2005, the vertical separation
between aircraft at FL280 and above is 1000 feet. Only aircraft properly
equipped for DRVSM are permitted to fly above FL280.


m = Minimums

non-RVSM aircraft can indeed fly above FL280, but will require special
handling (e.g., traffic permitting).

--
Bob Noel
looking for a sig the lawyers will like
  #5  
Old January 26th 05, 12:15 AM
Blueskies
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Default


"jsmith" wrote in message ...
Domestic Reduced Vertical Separation M?? begins at FL280.
Prior to January 20, 2005, vertical separation between aircraft above FL280 was 2000 feet. As of 20 January 2005, the
vertical separation between aircraft at FL280 and above is 1000 feet. Only aircraft properly equipped for DRVSM are
permitted to fly above FL280.


Altimeter accuracy ±65' for current birds and ±130' for older ones. Pretty amazing stuff actually, something like 1/4 of
1%...


  #6  
Old January 26th 05, 02:14 AM
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Default

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 23:15:41 GMT, "Blueskies"
wrote:


"jsmith" wrote in message ...
Domestic Reduced Vertical Separation M?? begins at FL280.
Prior to January 20, 2005, vertical separation between aircraft above FL280 was 2000 feet. As of 20 January 2005, the
vertical separation between aircraft at FL280 and above is 1000 feet. Only aircraft properly equipped for DRVSM are
permitted to fly above FL280.


Altimeter accuracy ±65' for current birds and ±130' for older ones. Pretty amazing stuff actually, something like 1/4 of
1%...


Pretty sure that the ±65' and ±130' tolerance is for the "automatic
altitude control system" in regard to the "acquired altitude" in
"straight and level flight under nonturbulent, nongust conditions". If
there is an altitude select/acquire system, it's tolerance is ±25'
between the selected/displayed altitude and the corresponding signal
to the autopilot.

The tolerance for altimetry error is roughly between ±140' and ±200'.
There is also a requirement for an altitude alerter with a nominal
±200' ±50' (newer aircraft) and ±300' ±50' (older aircraft) alert
threshold.

If these numbers have changed recently, I apologize, am looking at
older reference/study material.

TC
  #7  
Old January 26th 05, 05:36 AM
Scott Skylane
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Default

Bob Noel wrote:
/snip/
non-RVSM aircraft can indeed fly above FL280, but will require special
handling (e.g., traffic permitting).


Bob,

That is what we thought, but there is more to it than that. This is from :
FAA Notice GEN04009 (Operational Policy/Procedures For RVSM In the
Domestic US, Alaska , Offshore Airspace and the San Juan FIR ( 24 Nov 04 )

http://www.faa.gov/ats/ato/150_docs/...N04009-120.doc




"2. Categories of Non-RVSM Aircraft That May Be Accommodated

* (a) Subject to FAA approval and clearance, the following categories
of Non-RVSM aircraft may operate in Domestic U.S. RVSM airspace provided
that they have an operational transponder:

• Department of Defense (DoD) aircraft

• Flights conducted for aircraft certification and development purposes

• Active Air Ambulance flights utilizing a “Lifeguard” call sign

• Aircraft climbing/descending through RVSM flight levels (without
intermediate level off) to/from FL’s above RVSM airspace (Policies for
these flights are detailed in paragraph k below)

• Foreign State (government) aircraft"

i.e. if you don't fit in the above categories, you *can not* operate
above FL280.

We've been slogging along at 280 all week...

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane
  #8  
Old January 26th 05, 04:16 PM
Dave S
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Default

A couple freight dog companies out there are cryin in their beer right
now.. they figured the govt would flinch and not go LIVE like they said
they would be...

Topping out at FL 280 turns an older learjet from a 1500 nm plane to a
6-800 nm plane.

Dave

Capt.Doug wrote:
It seems a little strange when Havana Center says "Cleared to flight level
three zero zero". It seems a little strange going eastbound at FL 310. It
seems a little strange when Atlanta Center actually has a different altitude
available while going to O'Hare. It seems very strange when another airliner
passes within a 1000' at FL 360.

I just finished my first trip with RVSM (Conveniently sitting on a Caribbean
island while many of ya'll got snowed on- Nah Nah!). It didn't take long to
overcome the strangeness and appreciate the new way (unlike when they
started calling airspace by classes).

It is good, unless you are one of the uncertified stuck at FL280. A friend
in Washington DC related to me that after the inauguration there was a
logjam of airplanes waiting to depart at FL280 while his RVSM ride went
around all of them for a hasty departure. Another friend who drives a Lear
is stuck at 280 and can barely make TEB from MIA now.

D.



  #9  
Old January 26th 05, 05:42 PM
kage
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

RVSM kits are available for the older Lears. We put one on our Lear 35A, it
was something like $90,000. But the price has come down about by half now.

Karl


"Dave S" wrote in message
ink.net...
A couple freight dog companies out there are cryin in their beer right
now.. they figured the govt would flinch and not go LIVE like they said
they would be...

Topping out at FL 280 turns an older learjet from a 1500 nm plane to a
6-800 nm plane.

Dave

Capt.Doug wrote:
It seems a little strange when Havana Center says "Cleared to flight
level
three zero zero". It seems a little strange going eastbound at FL 310. It
seems a little strange when Atlanta Center actually has a different
altitude
available while going to O'Hare. It seems very strange when another
airliner
passes within a 1000' at FL 360.

I just finished my first trip with RVSM (Conveniently sitting on a
Caribbean
island while many of ya'll got snowed on- Nah Nah!). It didn't take long
to
overcome the strangeness and appreciate the new way (unlike when they
started calling airspace by classes).

It is good, unless you are one of the uncertified stuck at FL280. A
friend
in Washington DC related to me that after the inauguration there was a
logjam of airplanes waiting to depart at FL280 while his RVSM ride went
around all of them for a hasty departure. Another friend who drives a
Lear
is stuck at 280 and can barely make TEB from MIA now.

D.





  #10  
Old January 26th 05, 06:49 PM
zatatime
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 21:45:36 GMT, jsmith wrote:

Domestic Reduced Vertical Separation M?? begins at FL280.
Prior to January 20, 2005, vertical separation between aircraft above
FL280 was 2000 feet. As of 20 January 2005, the vertical separation
between aircraft at FL280 and above is 1000 feet. Only aircraft properly
equipped for DRVSM are permitted to fly above FL280.



Thanks.
z
 




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