A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Home Built
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Flying wing vs tailless airplane



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old April 23rd 04, 05:02 PM
BernadetteTS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Flying wing vs tailless airplane

What is the difference between a flying wing and a tailless airplane? Is
there a difference? Just wondering after reading the post about the
monarch glider a few weeks ago. Where would an ME-163 be classified.
Does an F-106 or B-58 delta wing count as a tailless airplane?

Thanks
Bernadette
Ads
  #2  
Old April 23rd 04, 05:06 PM
Dude
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I don't know if there is an official answer, but I would say that a flying
wing has no discernible fuselage.

A fuselage that is shaped to provide lift might be a sticky call though.


"BernadetteTS" wrote in message
...
What is the difference between a flying wing and a tailless airplane? Is
there a difference? Just wondering after reading the post about the
monarch glider a few weeks ago. Where would an ME-163 be classified.
Does an F-106 or B-58 delta wing count as a tailless airplane?

Thanks
Bernadette



  #3  
Old April 23rd 04, 07:20 PM
Bill Daniels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The term 'flying wing' is newspaper bafflegab. All wings fly even if they
are attached to an aircraft that has a tail. I once read that Jack Northrop
was appalled by the term but accepted it when the newspapers wrote favorable
articles about his designs.

Aerodynamic texts seem to use the term 'tailless aircraft' to describe any
aircraft whose elevator function is integrated into the wing. This is
distinct from the fin and rudder which can be retained as in the ME-163. If
the aircraft is small and uses a high aspect ratio wing, it needs some sort
of fuselage or nacelle to contain the pilot as in the case of Jim Marske's
gliders.

Northrop and the Hortons dreamed of eliminating everything but the wing
itself. Their designs would probably have been better if they had made a
concession and used winglets.

Bill Daniels

"BernadetteTS" wrote in message
...
What is the difference between a flying wing and a tailless airplane? Is
there a difference? Just wondering after reading the post about the
monarch glider a few weeks ago. Where would an ME-163 be classified.
Does an F-106 or B-58 delta wing count as a tailless airplane?

Thanks
Bernadette


  #4  
Old April 23rd 04, 07:30 PM
Wright1902Glider
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Actually, I think a lifting fuselage comes under its own category... lifting
body.
Historically, a flying wing aircraft is not only without a fuselage, it is just
a wing. Its engines, cockpit, bomb bays, landing gear, etc. are all contained
within the wing structure itself. That would include all of Northrop's designs
(YB-49, B-2), most/all of Horten's, and just about every hang-glider since
Francis Regallo. I would also clasify the ME-162 as a flying wing even though
it is a little fat in its center section.

I'd call the F-106, Mirage, space shuttle, Concorde, etc. delta-winged
aircraft. Definately a triangular-shaped wing attached to a fuselage.

Now here's another question: are canard aircraft tailless? I can think of
some that a Rutan EZ, Wright 1900 & 1901 gliders. I can also think of some
that aren't: Rutan Voyager, Wright 1902-1908 Flyers.

Fun stuff,
Harry
  #5  
Old April 24th 04, 02:26 AM
Blueskies
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The B2 fails the no fuselage definition I would think, blended fuselage maybe but not no fuselage.

--
Dan D.
http://www.ameritech.net/users/ddevillers/start.html


..
"Wright1902Glider" wrote in message ...
Actually, I think a lifting fuselage comes under its own category... lifting
body.
Historically, a flying wing aircraft is not only without a fuselage, it is just
a wing. Its engines, cockpit, bomb bays, landing gear, etc. are all contained
within the wing structure itself. That would include all of Northrop's designs
(YB-49, B-2), most/all of Horten's, and just about every hang-glider since
Francis Regallo. I would also clasify the ME-162 as a flying wing even though
it is a little fat in its center section.

I'd call the F-106, Mirage, space shuttle, Concorde, etc. delta-winged
aircraft. Definately a triangular-shaped wing attached to a fuselage.

Now here's another question: are canard aircraft tailless? I can think of
some that a Rutan EZ, Wright 1900 & 1901 gliders. I can also think of some
that aren't: Rutan Voyager, Wright 1902-1908 Flyers.

Fun stuff,
Harry



  #6  
Old April 24th 04, 02:28 AM
Blueskies
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I like that, never though of flying wing that way. Indeed, if it is a wing, it should by definition fly...

--
Dan D.
http://www.ameritech.net/users/ddevillers/start.html


..
"Bill Daniels" wrote in message news:[email protected]_s02...
The term 'flying wing' is newspaper bafflegab. All wings fly even if they
are attached to an aircraft that has a tail. I once read that Jack Northrop
was appalled by the term but accepted it when the newspapers wrote favorable
articles about his designs.

Aerodynamic texts seem to use the term 'tailless aircraft' to describe any
aircraft whose elevator function is integrated into the wing. This is
distinct from the fin and rudder which can be retained as in the ME-163. If
the aircraft is small and uses a high aspect ratio wing, it needs some sort
of fuselage or nacelle to contain the pilot as in the case of Jim Marske's
gliders.

Northrop and the Hortons dreamed of eliminating everything but the wing
itself. Their designs would probably have been better if they had made a
concession and used winglets.

Bill Daniels

"BernadetteTS" wrote in message
...
What is the difference between a flying wing and a tailless airplane? Is
there a difference? Just wondering after reading the post about the
monarch glider a few weeks ago. Where would an ME-163 be classified.
Does an F-106 or B-58 delta wing count as a tailless airplane?

Thanks
Bernadette




  #7  
Old April 24th 04, 06:40 AM
Dude
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thus my predicament. How "blended" does it have to be to count as a part of
the wing?




"Blueskies" wrote in message
. com...
The B2 fails the no fuselage definition I would think, blended fuselage

maybe but not no fuselage.

--
Dan D.
http://www.ameritech.net/users/ddevillers/start.html


.
"Wright1902Glider" wrote in message

...
Actually, I think a lifting fuselage comes under its own category...

lifting
body.
Historically, a flying wing aircraft is not only without a fuselage, it

is just
a wing. Its engines, cockpit, bomb bays, landing gear, etc. are all

contained
within the wing structure itself. That would include all of Northrop's

designs
(YB-49, B-2), most/all of Horten's, and just about every hang-glider

since
Francis Regallo. I would also clasify the ME-162 as a flying wing even

though
it is a little fat in its center section.

I'd call the F-106, Mirage, space shuttle, Concorde, etc. delta-winged
aircraft. Definately a triangular-shaped wing attached to a fuselage.

Now here's another question: are canard aircraft tailless? I can think

of
some that a Rutan EZ, Wright 1900 & 1901 gliders. I can also think

of some
that aren't: Rutan Voyager, Wright 1902-1908 Flyers.

Fun stuff,
Harry





  #8  
Old May 1st 04, 06:47 PM
Wright1902Glider
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dan,

Before I had a good idea of what I was doing, I built quite a few wings that
couldn't fly. And I'm not real sure about the one I have now.

How would you classify an aircraft like mine? Its got a canard, and its got a
rear mounted rudder. But I havn't met a single person yet that would call the
parts in between a "fuselage." A few sticks maybe... The whole rudder assy.
and tail end of my glider is behind my bedroom door right now.

Ah, the joys of pioneer aircraft. Nobody knows what they are, nobody knows how
to classify them, but everyone's pretty sure that I shouldn't be allowed to fly
them. Hmmm... gonna hafta get a radial engine... and some guns... people like
airplanes with radial engines and guns.

Harry Frey
Wright Brothers Enterprises

"PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!" ...Professor Marvel,
Wizard of Oz


  #9  
Old May 1st 04, 11:54 PM
Blueskies
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Sounds like an ultralight to me ;-)

--
Dan D.
http://www.ameritech.net/users/ddevillers/start.html


..
"Wright1902Glider" wrote in message ...
Dan,

Before I had a good idea of what I was doing, I built quite a few wings that
couldn't fly. And I'm not real sure about the one I have now.

How would you classify an aircraft like mine? Its got a canard, and its got a
rear mounted rudder. But I havn't met a single person yet that would call the
parts in between a "fuselage." A few sticks maybe... The whole rudder assy.
and tail end of my glider is behind my bedroom door right now.

Ah, the joys of pioneer aircraft. Nobody knows what they are, nobody knows how
to classify them, but everyone's pretty sure that I shouldn't be allowed to fly
them. Hmmm... gonna hafta get a radial engine... and some guns... people like
airplanes with radial engines and guns.

Harry Frey
Wright Brothers Enterprises

"PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!" ...Professor Marvel,
Wizard of Oz




  #10  
Old May 2nd 04, 07:21 PM
Fred the Red Shirt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Blueskies" wrote in message ...
Sounds like an ultralight to me ;-)

.
"Wright1902Glider" wrote in message ...

How would you classify an aircraft like mine? Its got a canard, and its got a
rear mounted rudder. But I havn't met a single person yet that would call the
parts in between a "fuselage." A few sticks maybe... The whole rudder assy.
and tail end of my glider is behind my bedroom door right now.


Wings on a stick.

Google for 'Breezy'.

--

FF
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Homebuilt Aircraft Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) Ron Wanttaja Home Built 0 April 5th 04 03:04 PM
Homebuilt Aircraft Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) Ron Wanttaja Home Built 2 February 3rd 04 12:41 AM
Homebuilt Aircraft Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) Ron Wanttaja Home Built 0 October 2nd 03 03:07 AM
Homebuilt Aircraft Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) Ron Wanttaja Home Built 4 August 7th 03 05:12 AM
Homebuilt Aircraft Frequently-Asked Questions (FAQ) Ron Wanttaja Home Built 0 July 4th 03 04:50 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2020 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.