2 aircraft cleared onto the same runway at the same time

"Robert Chambers" wrote in message
om...

It may depend on the field, but if you have an IFR arrival inbound on an
ILS approach, and an IFR departure waiting to take to the skies, the guy
on the ground is not going to be released.


That is not correct.



At larger airports where they have more runways or larger distances
separating incoming from outgoing they can squeeze the timing a bit. From
my home field (class D) I know this to be the case.


You believe that to be the case, but that is not the case. You are
misinformed.

"Robert Chambers" wrote in message
om...

And what happens if the incoming plane goes missed?


Nothing.



You're assuming an awful lot about what the tower guy can and cannot see.

My home field tower doesn't have radar, or a brite scope slaved from the
approach control.

If there's an incoming IFR flight, and you want to go out IFR, you are not
going to be released until the incoming plane either lands or cancels IFR.


Well, it's done regularly. Whoever told you this stuff doesn't know what
he's talking about.

For the same reason a plane holding for IFR release cannot take off until
the IFR arrival he's waiting for has either cancelled IFR or has landed.
Not true at a controlled field.

Assuming IMC, what does a controller do to ensure separation in the air
for the departing aircraft from an arriving IFR aircraft who has not
cancelled IFR or landed?

Or is your comment limited to VMC?

Jose
r.a.s trimmed
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Robert Chambers wrote:
It may depend on the field, but if you have an IFR arrival inbound on an
ILS approach, and an IFR departure waiting to take to the skies, the guy
on the ground is not going to be released.

No reason not to if there is a tower.


At larger airports where
they have more runways or larger distances separating incoming from
outgoing they can squeeze the timing a bit.

The number of runways or their spacing is irrelavant.

Robert Chambers wrote:

And what happens if the incoming plane goes missed?

He is issued a vector.


You're assuming an
awful lot about what the tower guy can and cannot see.

No I am not. Been there done that.



My home field tower doesn't have radar,
or a brite scope slaved from the
approach control.

Neither did the one I worked at.


If there's an incoming IFR flight, and you want to go out IFR, you are
not going to be released until the incoming plane either lands or
cancels IFR.

Your tower is not using all the tools available to it.

Jose wrote:



Assuming IMC,

Which isn't relavant.


what does a controller do to ensure separation in the air
for the departing aircraft from an arriving IFR aircraft who has not
cancelled IFR or landed?

Issue a heading that guarantees separation.



Or is your comment limited to VMC?

Doesn't matter.

"Jose" wrote in message
news

Assuming IMC, what does a controller do to ensure separation in the air
for the departing aircraft from an arriving IFR aircraft who has not
cancelled IFR or landed?


He applies an approved form of separation. There are a variety to choose
from, visual and radar are probably the most commonly used, but there are
nonradar techniques as well.

http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp6/atc0603.html



Or is your comment limited to VMC?


Nope.

Tom,

I believe that as long as both aircraft are diverging by 30 degrees on
climbout headings, this is perfectly legal.

BJ

Tom Fleischman wrote:

This was a new one for me.

I was IFR this afternoon out of HPN for short practice flight. I was in
sequence number two at the runway waiting for departure. As the tower
controller cleared the Cessna in front of me to position and hold, he
asked him his direction of flight. The Cessna pilot responded
"Northbound". The controller then instructed the Cessna to position 50
feet north on Rwy 34, and then he cleared me to position and hold
behind the Cessna. The Cessna was VFR. I questioned the clearance,
reminding him that there was an airplane on the runway in front of me.
He told me to position and hold behind the traffic. As I taxiied into
position, he cleared the Cessna for takeoff and as soon as the Cessna
broke ground he cleared me for takeoff. I was using a DP which includes
a turn to the left. The Cessna was instructed to turn out to the right.

I've been flying out of HPN since 1992 and I have never seen or heard
of anything like this being done there before, ever.

Did I miss something??

what does a controller do to ensure separation in the air
for the departing aircraft from an arriving IFR aircraft who has not cancelled IFR or landed?

Issue a heading that guarantees separation.

What are the separation requirements?

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

He applies an approved form of separation. There are a variety to choose
from, visual and radar are probably the most commonly used, but there are
nonradar techniques as well.

http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp6/atc0603.html

Thanks Steven - very helpful.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.