Switching to ground....

EXCEPT the active runway.

Precisely what I just said.


More than one runway may be active. However only one runway is the ASSIGNED
(and active) runway.

Jose


--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Teacherjh wrote:

Ok, so you are cleared to runway 21. One taxi route takes you across runway
8-26, another equally direct one does not. You are not given a taxi route.

I take it (in the US) you may choose your route and cross 8-26.

I suppose it would be, but I cannot recall being told to taxi to someplace at a
controlled field and not being given a taxi route when there were two equally direct
routes.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

but is a clearance to cross other runways that
intersect the taxi route to that assigned takeoff runway.


Ok, so you are cleared to runway 21. One taxi route takes you across
runway
8-26, another equally direct one does not. You are not given a taxi
route.

I take it (in the US) you may choose your route and cross 8-26.

Anybody take it differently?

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Jose,

No, I have always been given a route when cleared to taxi to the assigned
runway. If it is not a direct route,you get intersection turns and generally
holds at any intersecting active runways.

Once at a large airport I needed to get to a radio shop on the other side of
the field. The PTT on the mike fell apart when I ack.the taxi instructions
to FS after landing.
I called the tower, by phone,from the FS and told them my dilemma &
intentions. Winds were light and variable,so they were using all 3 runways
and I had to cross all three. We agreed to use non-radio with me monitoring
the ground frequency(they were quite busy). I would taxi to an active and
hold till I got the green light to cross it. It made fast work of the trip
as each time I got the light,he was talking to another plane somewhere else
on the field.
The point of all this is that proper communications are the key to success.

As far as the Hamburg incident,sorry I can't resist!

"What we have here is a failure to communicate!" 8^)

Marty

On 11 Apr 2004 14:58:19 GMT, (Teacherjh)
wrote:


EXCEPT the active runway.

Precisely what I just said.


More than one runway may be active. However only one runway is the ASSIGNED
(and active) runway.

What about airports with parallel runway operations? KBOS perhaps?
If they're using both 4L and 4R for takeoffs and landings, which one
is the assigned and active runway? If it's 4R, can I land and cross
4L without clearance? I also believe the German way is strange - if
I'm landing 4R, and the tower tells me "taxi to the ramp via Henry,
Frank, ground on .5 once clear 4L" I'm reading that clearance to mean
that they aren't planning on rolling someone on 4L before they've seen
me cross, not that I'm going to use H, F to the ramp, stopping before
4L to call up again and make sure that the runway is clear before I
cross it.

Active Runways - Runway(s) where aircraft are taking off and landing.

Assigned Runway - Runway you have been instructed to take off from (or land
on).




"Peter Clark" wrote in message
...
On 11 Apr 2004 14:58:19 GMT, (Teacherjh)
wrote:


EXCEPT the active runway.

Precisely what I just said.


More than one runway may be active. However only one runway is the
ASSIGNED
(and active) runway.

What about airports with parallel runway operations? KBOS perhaps?
If they're using both 4L and 4R for takeoffs and landings, which one
is the assigned and active runway? If it's 4R, can I land and cross
4L without clearance? I also believe the German way is strange - if
I'm landing 4R, and the tower tells me "taxi to the ramp via Henry,
Frank, ground on .5 once clear 4L" I'm reading that clearance to mean
that they aren't planning on rolling someone on 4L before they've seen
me cross, not that I'm going to use H, F to the ramp, stopping before
4L to call up again and make sure that the runway is clear before I
cross it.

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 20:07:00 +0200, Stefan
wrote:

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
I don't know how it is in the USA, but in this part of the world, a taxi
instruction does *not* imply the right to cross a runway.

I assume you are referring to Germany here as well. IMHO a taxi
clearance to a point beyond a runway implies a clearance to cross it.
If you have a reference for your theory, I'd be very interested in
that.

Often Ground controllers are
employees of the airport, Tower controllers are employees of ATC. Ground
"controllers" needn't even be controllers at all.

Sorry, but this is plainly wrong. At least in Germany "Ground"
controllers on the major airports are DFS-employees and "real"
controllers. You probably have "Apron"-controllers in mind, but they
don't do any movement control on taxiways, never mind taxiways which
have runway intersections.

Ground gives you instructions where to taxi and which taxiways ot use,
but this doesn't imply the right to enter a runway. If you must cross a
runway, you hold short of it, switch to Tower and ask for permission to
cross it. After crossing, you switch back to Ground.

Usually Ground will say something like "Taxi via x to holding point y,
hold short of runway z, contact Tower 123.45", but if they omit the hold
short part, this doesn't imply anything.

I've never heard a controller omit the "hold short" part, and for good
reason.

Regards
Tobias

"Stefan" wrote in message
...

So be it, if it helps to make you feel better.


My feelings have nothing to do with it. Drop your nationalist attitude and
compare the procedures logically and you'll agree that US procedures are
superior.

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

Ok, so you are cleared to runway 21. One taxi route takes you across
runway
8-26, another equally direct one does not. You are not given a taxi
route.

I take it (in the US) you may choose your route and cross 8-26.


Correct.

"Peter Clark" wrote in message
...

What about airports with parallel runway operations? KBOS perhaps?
If they're using both 4L and 4R for takeoffs and landings, which one
is the assigned and active runway?


The one that follows "taxi to" is the assigned runway.



If it's 4R, can I land and cross 4L without clearance?


No.

The reg seems to support the statement that the "Taxi To" instruction
permits you to taxi across ALL other runways, even if they are active. It
only prohibits you from actually entering or crossing the one runway to
which you are assigned (ie: taxiing to)...


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
ink.net:


"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

Then I've committed an awful lot of runway incursions without
ever being told about it.


Well, you have if you crossed the assigned runway. If you merely
crossed other active runways that were not assigned to you then you're
okay.


§ 91.129 Operations in Class D airspace.

(i) Takeoff, landing, taxi clearance. No person may, at any airport
with an operating control tower, operate an aircraft on a runway or
taxiway, or take off or land an aircraft, unless an appropriate
clearance is received from ATC. A clearance to "taxi to" the takeoff
runway assigned to the aircraft is not a clearance to cross that
assigned takeoff runway, or to taxi on that runway at any point, but is
a clearance to cross other runways that intersect the taxi route to
that assigned takeoff runway. A clearance to "taxi to" any point other
than an assigned takeoff runway is clearance to cross all runways that
intersect the taxi route to that point.