Cambridge 302 -or- Borgelt B50 plus data logger

John Galloway wrote:

...the 302A cannot calculate winds
and GN11 also does not do a wind calculation when attached to a 302A.

Dear John,

I appreciate your considered response and don't mean to cast
dispersion; however,

Are you 100% positive that the 302A cannot calculate winds? This
seems odd for any GPS not to be able to do so.

Can anyone verify this?

RD

RD,

I would be delighted to find I am wrong but the 302A
we are using gives no indication of outputting a wind
calculation in its interaction with a variety of PDA
programmes that my partner has tried with it (althout
SeeYou Mobile seems to calculate its own circling drift
wind when attached to the 302A). Also he has corresponded
with Paul Remde (US agent for Cambridge and GN11 as
you will know) about this subject and I am sure he
would have been able to tell us if this was wrong.
I had a look at the 302A manual and it doesn't say
it calculates winds - but the 302 manual also has no
mention of wind calculation which it does do.

The 302 variometer calculates vector winds and not
circling drift wind. Take away the pneumatic inputs
and it has no way of doing this - even if the computer
hardware that allows the 302 to do this isn't removed
in the process of turning it into a 302A - which I
suspect it will be.

John Galloway

At 21:54 26 May 2004, Romeo Delta wrote:
John Galloway wrote:

...the 302A cannot calculate winds
and GN11 also does not do a wind calculation when attached
to a 302A.

Dear John,

I appreciate your considered response and don't mean
to cast
dispersion; however,

Are you 100% positive that the 302A cannot calculate
winds? This
seems odd for any GPS not to be able to do so.

Can anyone verify this?

RD

Romeo Delta wrote:

John Galloway wrote:


...the 302A cannot calculate winds
and GN11 also does not do a wind calculation when attached to a 302A.


Dear John,

I appreciate your considered response and don't mean to cast
dispersion; however,

Are you 100% positive that the 302A cannot calculate winds? This
seems odd for any GPS not to be able to do so.

It can't calculate winds during course deviations, like the 302 can,
because it doesn't have the airspeed measurement. It might be able to
calculate them while circling - don't know about that.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

RD: If you choose to go with the B50 (a very good instrument), I can
offer a B50 plus Volkslogger system at 75% of current price. This
system was removed from my glider which was sold sans instruments.
Both units are in perfect operation. The Volkslogger is the new
connector type. Email me direct. I can send photos if needed.
Manuals are provided.

Steve Koerner
Mesa AZ

Hi,

I think there may some confusion on what the 302A can and can't do, and a
bug in Glide Navigator II. We recently realized that Glide Navigator II had
issues with the 302A (GPS/Logger) because it was confusing it with a 302
(GPS/logger/vario). Since the wind data was not being received from the
302A (as it would be from a 302) Glide Navigator II was displaying wind of 0
at all times. Today I tested the bug fix version of Glide Navigator II in
flight and it worked great with my 302A. The wind information was displayed
and looked correct to me. It should be available on my web site tomorrow
(Thursday) evening.

So, the answer to the question is that no, I'm pretty sure (but could be
wrong) that the 302A does not calculated wind speed and direction. But
using soaring flight software like Glide Navigator II or pocket*StrePla
(also tested today with my 302A) works great as the software calculates wind
speed and direction while thermalling.

I don't think Volksloggers calculate wind while circling either.

Does that make sense?

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com


"Romeo Delta" wrote in message
om...
John Galloway wrote:

...the 302A cannot calculate winds
and GN11 also does not do a wind calculation when attached to a 302A.

Dear John,

I appreciate your considered response and don't mean to cast
dispersion; however,

Are you 100% positive that the 302A cannot calculate winds? This
seems odd for any GPS not to be able to do so.

Can anyone verify this?

RD

If you are looking for a logger that calculates wind speed and
direction, the Colibri will do this and display it on the units
screen.

Kevin

"Paul Remde" wrote:

...the software calculates wind speed and direction while thermalling.

Hi Paul,

Is GNII able to provide wind and/or ground speed info enroute?

Is any nav software able to do either?

Ray

Romeo Delta wrote:

"Paul Remde" wrote:


...the software calculates wind speed and direction while thermalling.


Hi Paul,

Is GNII able to provide wind and/or ground speed info enroute?

As a user of GNII and a 302: if the GNII is connected to the 302, then
yes; if it's connected to "just a GPS" (like my Cambridge model 20),
then no.

Is any nav software able to do either?

The nav software also needs the airspeed information, or heading
information (compass). Just a GPS input isn't enough to update wind info
while cruising.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
...
Romeo Delta wrote:

"Paul Remde" wrote:


...the software calculates wind speed and direction while thermalling.


Hi Paul,

Is GNII able to provide wind and/or ground speed info enroute?

As a user of GNII and a 302: if the GNII is connected to the 302, then
yes; if it's connected to "just a GPS" (like my Cambridge model 20),
then no.

Is any nav software able to do either?

The nav software also needs the airspeed information, or heading
information (compass). Just a GPS input isn't enough to update wind info
while cruising.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA


By "enroute" I think RD meant straight flight. To solve for accurate winds
without turning, you need four pieces of data: Ground Track, Groundspeed,
True Airspeed and Heading.

The first two are available now from GPS. True Airspeed can be obtained
with a differential pressure sensor and air temperature. A good heading
sensor is the tough nut. I notice that marine navigation vendors are
beginning to sell GPS based heading sensors using two antennas and receivers
in one box. They're expensive but, being pure electronics, the price will
likely come down

I know that reasonably accurate wind data can be computed if the glider
makes slight turns while gliding between thermals. However, after decades
of powered flight, I habitually make very straight glides and the accuracy
of the wind data becomes highly suspect. Super accurate wind info while in
a straight glider would be very helpful finding convergence zones.

Bill Daniels

Bill Daniels wrote:

By "enroute" I think RD meant straight flight. To solve for accurate winds
without turning, you need four pieces of data: Ground Track, Groundspeed,
True Airspeed and Heading.

The first two are available now from GPS. True Airspeed can be obtained
with a differential pressure sensor and air temperature. A good heading
sensor is the tough nut. I notice that marine navigation vendors are
beginning to sell GPS based heading sensors using two antennas and receivers
in one box. They're expensive but, being pure electronics, the price will
likely come down

I'm already carrying two gps units, but they don't talk to each other!
Maybe mounting a Garmin Geko on each wing tip, then combining their
output would give us a heading. Mike B ought to be able to do that with
his RS232 combiner box and a small mod to his flight computer software.


I know that reasonably accurate wind data can be computed if the glider
makes slight turns while gliding between thermals. However, after decades
of powered flight, I habitually make very straight glides and the accuracy
of the wind data becomes highly suspect. Super accurate wind info while in
a straight glider would be very helpful finding convergence zones.

Glide Navigator II and probably other software can display the error
between measured headwind (using IAS and ground speed) and headwind
calculated from the vector wind in use. An error over +/- 2 knots is a
good indication the vector wind in use isn't valid anymore. If I care
about the wind, I'll update the vector wind calculation by deviating
from a straight course, or even making one circle.

It's not as good as a system using headings, but it works well most of
the time.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA