Back to square one on buying an Arrow

"Jack Allison" wrote in message
...
We got closer this time. We actually had our verbal offer accepted.

You might be moving too slow. Almost any good airplane that comes up for
sale at a good price is immediately snapped up.

Having the cash in hand at the right time is essential. Don't count on going
half way across the country to do a pre-by if you don't have the money in
your pocket.

Pre-bys are not always what they seem. There are horror stories abound. The
best deals are fast and usually from someone local with a good reputation.
Mostly these are never advertised.

What is really fun is to fly around to popular airports are "hangartalk"
about planes for sale there. There are hundreds of Arrows in California.
Take your time. Spending money is supposed to be fun. Once you see the right
deal, BAM! Take it. Move slow then move fast.

Karl,

PA-18
C-185
PA-18
BC-12D
M-20J
C-180
C-206
C-185 (my current hangar queen)
C-207
C-207

I practice what I preach.

wrote:
Is it only me, or does anybody realize that a Grumman Tiger that is
tuned well
and in good condition will blow the doors off an ARROW! Try one out
and then
decide if you really want to pay for the annuals for the retractable
every year.
Thanks Bill but we're interested in a complex as two of us want to move
onto a commercial rating in the future. Thus, an Arrow nicely fits the
mission profile. Insurance is much more reasonable than on a higher
performance complex. If I was going to stop at an instrument rating,
sure, anything down and welded would be a good choice. I've heard nice
things about the Tiger and would love to fly one someday.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student-Arrow Buying Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Wow, interesting story Jim. Sounds like you're "da man" to talk to
aviation sleuth work :-) At the moment, however, I'm way more inclined
to let the deal fall through when/if the owner gets squirly and or is
off his meds for a day. This experience was well worth it and I'm glad
I gave it one last shot within the conditions I had. Oh well, live and
learn. There are lots of Arrows out there, we just need to find the
right one.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student-Arrow Buying Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Nathan Young wrote:

From your post history, I believe you live in CA.

Yep, in the Sacramento area.

Of course, I just checked aso.com, and they did not list a single
Arrow in California or the W. Coast. - so maybe that's the problem,
they have all migrated East :-)
I think a bunch of them must have been transplanted to the Carolinas.
I've lost count of how many I see in NC/SC. Something about going coast
to coast to buy a plane though. I'd love the return flight to bring the
bird home. Heck, I could knock out my instrument x-c flight.

We're looking here in CA and there are some but nothing worth
mentioning. Oh, sure there's an "airshow ready" Arrow in Auburn that we
made an offer on (that was the one that was flatly rejected, no counter
from the seller). The owner refuses to deal off his $73.5K asking price
so we said "see ya". So, we're 0 for 2 right now. No big deal, we'll
hit one out of the park sometime in the future.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student-Arrow Buying Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 09:38:51 -0800, Jack Allison
wrote:

Nathan Young wrote:

From your post history, I believe you live in CA.

Yep, in the Sacramento area.

Of course, I just checked aso.com, and they did not list a single
Arrow in California or the W. Coast. - so maybe that's the problem,
they have all migrated East :-)
I think a bunch of them must have been transplanted to the Carolinas.
I've lost count of how many I see in NC/SC. Something about going coast
to coast to buy a plane though. I'd love the return flight to bring the
bird home. Heck, I could knock out my instrument x-c flight.

We're looking here in CA and there are some but nothing worth
mentioning. Oh, sure there's an "airshow ready" Arrow in Auburn that we
made an offer on (that was the one that was flatly rejected, no counter
from the seller). The owner refuses to deal off his $73.5K asking price
so we said "see ya". So, we're 0 for 2 right now. No big deal, we'll
hit one out of the park sometime in the future.

As several other posters alluded - sometimes the best deals are local
ones that are not well advertised. Talk to the area mechanics and
network with other pilots. You may be surprised what you find...

Good luck in your search. As a side note, if you purchase the plane
a long distance from CA, please take caution on the return flight.
Mechanical failures are common after maintenance (ie the prebuy) and
especially so in this case as you do not know the entire history of
the plane. I would make several local area flights before setting off
on the long distance XC. I would fly as high as practical, and I
would not fly in IMC. Do not trust the book oil burn or fuel burn
numbers until you've put a lot of hours into the plane and know that
they are accurate.

One other prebuy item. Most A&Ps do not exercise the avionics for the
prebuy. They will focus on the airframe and powerplant. During your
test flights, take the time to track near and distant VORs, make sure
the indicator error is reasonable. If equipped with DME make sure it
can pick up near/distant stations. . Fly a practice ILS, and note
if the crossing heights at the OM are accurate. Verify the flags on
the OBS indicator are working. Make sure the market beacons operate
correctly.

-Nathan

Something that you can and should do before going as far as arranging a
pre-buy or purchasing airline tickets is to get a title search and aircraft
records from AOPA. You can also get a CD from the FAA that has ownership
and 337 info. If it turns up something suspicious, you can always ask the
owner about it. It will also show a history of every recorded owner. You
can contact the previous owners to ask why they sold the plane. It will
show if the airplane has been located in a corrosion prone area which should
lead you to ask questions about corrosion prevention. All the form 337's
should also be included which may or may not point out damage or repair
history.

I was able to use information found in title searches to seek out several
A&P's that had worked on some of the planes we were interested in. I found
good and bad. I talked to one previous owner that wanted me to tell him
where the plane was because if I didn't buy it, he wanted to buy it back. I
also located one retired engine builder that, in his time, had a great
reputation of rebuilding engines. The plane they were on however hadn't
flown in 9 years. The engine builder basically told us to forget it. He
said the only way he'd touch it was if they were torn down and inspected.
Next.

Time spent going through all the records will pay huge dividends.

Jim

Jack Allison writes:

We're looking here in CA and there are some but nothing worth
mentioning.

If you haven't already, mention to mechanics the kind of plane that
you're looking for. They are aware of owners who might be on the brink
of listing their plane, etc.

I found my current plane, a 1973 Cessna 182P, that way.

-jav

Jack Allison wrote:

We're looking here in CA and there are some but nothing worth
mentioning.
snip

The search for a good one can take a long time. My 1st plane took 3
months, and I found it by word of mouth. A friend at the aiport had
seen the guy put a "for sale" sign in the window and called me within
the hour. The second one I found sitting on a broker's ramp when I
went to go look at another plane. It had just arrived and had not yet
been advertised. I didn't go for the original plane, but snapped up
the new arrival before anyone else knew it was available.

Recently I've seen a fairly novel approach. Someone who was looking
for a good Cherokee 180 got the FAA owners list and sent postcards to
the owners. He also requested that if the recipient knew of anyone
that had a 180 for sale, to please pass on the contact info. I called
the guy because I knew of one for sale in a neighboring state. He'd
already found one, but shared his search method with me. To keep costs
down, he started off by sending cards to 180 owners in his home state.
Next he sent them to owners in states bordering his. The third mailing
expanded the search radius by one more state. He got lucky on the
third mailing.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

I burned through several looking at Aeronca Champs. I finally decided
that there no longer exists any that meet the FAA's definition of
airworthy (AD's). So, I'm stuck with my Mooney. Not exactly the best
plane to do low and slow in.

-Robert

FAA owners list and sent postcards to
the owners.

I did something similar. I downloaded the list, sorted it for the make,
model, model year, and engine, then sorted it by owners location.
Then I sorted it by owners name. I chose owners who's medicals had expired
and owners who had registered the plane more than 5 years ago. My thinking
was to find somebody who could no longer fly but who had owned the plane for
5 years or more.
I started calling owners in Wisconsin and Michigan that owned Aztecs.
My first 3 cold calls yielded 3 Aztecs and 2 Apaches who's owners had not
advertised the planes but were thinking of selling.
One Aztec turned up only 60 miles from home, 80 year old owner, lost his
medical, but the plane hadn't flown in 9 years.

Jim