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#31
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A few newbie questions about the sport
On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 3:45:08 PM UTC-4, Paul T wrote:
At 19:09 20 September 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote: On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 11:00:08 AM UTC-7, Paul T wrote: At 13:31 20 September 2018, kirk.stant wrote: On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 6:00:07 PM UTC-5, Paul T wrote: Sorry can't afford transatlantic telephone calls - I asked a fairly simpl=3D e =3D20 question, why can't you answer this on a public forum? Assuming you are British - do a search of BGA's excellent magazine; a=20 few y=3D ears ago there was an article about a student who basically soloed in 5 fli=3D ghts by using Condor to prepare.=3D20 I believe the French CNVV has developed a full-up Condor (w/cockpit=20 and big=3D screens) glider simulator for use by French glider clubs. Our own gliding club (St Louis Soaring Association) in the US is in the pro=3D cess of building up a Condor sim with realistic flight controls and multipl=3D e big screens. Any simulator is just a training tool (Condor is technically an Aircrew Tra=3D ining Device in the lingo of the flight simulation industry) and it's effec=3D tiveness is driven by how it is used. Since the cockpit of a glider is not =3D the best classroom, used properly Condor can be a great help to the learnin=3D g process. Learn it in the sim, practice it in the glider. Kirk (been using sims for training for almost 50 years now...yikes!) =20 =20 You ask a simple question on here and get slaughtered - I asked a=20 simple question of someone who uses this method as a business , what=20 is typically the time saved using this method-its it really such a difficult=20 question to answer? Why can't htat be answered on a public forum - =20 some kind of big secret or something? If you want to ask a simple question, might I suggest you do it without an = accusatory tone. Writers including myself have given you plenty antidotal "= evidence" of simulation training as a good learning tool. I was required b= y my insurance to attend Flight Safety for yearly simulation training in a = complex aircraft I have flown. Could be Scott runs a small operation, cater= ing to glider pilots, and has not funded a multi-part double blind study la= rge enough for a statically valid result, to see if 1) Condor simulation re= duces time to ticket for; a) ab initio student; b) for licensed power pilot= s transitioning; c) rusty returning pilots; d) currency=E2=80=A6.. =20 Simulation training has been around and proven since the Link trainer in th= e big one, that is WWII. Don't blame Scott or the newsgroup for calling yo= u out on your behavior! For the most part we have a great group that are he= lpful to one another and many members are the most respected members of our= sport internationally. If you truly wanted to know you would have taken S= cott up on his offer to communication directly. Yeah at great expense to myself, sorry but I cannot afford to make transantlantic telephone calls - there was no accusatory tone - asked a simple question that's all - dont see why that can't be answered. Think you are getting a bit oversensitiveness and reading things into things that aren't there . The guy stated this was his business and made some claims in a public forum - I merely asked if he had any evidence for that and what the average time saving was - surely a simple answer like' in my experience for the 50 students that have used this method - the average student can save 2 -4 hours on R/L training' would have answered the question - cannot see why that is so hard to do? If you wish to know the reason for this - is that I with some friends are thinking of establishing a gliding club in Bulgaria - Bulgaria is one of the poorest countries in the EU - we would like to establish a club that the a person on an average income can afford to fly - average incomes are low in Bulgaria @ 400euro/month - so any money savings saved in training would be beneficial and it may pay to use a simulator in the training syllabus. Warning - thread drift. You might consider something like the LAK-16M primary trainer. There is a short youtube video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj4oZ8bX9Oo ; aimed at younger people, but inexpensive, and looks like a lot of cheap fun. |
#32
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A few newbie questions about the sport
At 21:39 20 September 2018, Dan Daly wrote:
On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 3:45:08 PM UTC-4, Paul T wrote: At 19:09 20 September 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote: On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 11:00:08 AM UTC-7, Paul T wrote: At 13:31 20 September 2018, kirk.stant wrote: On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 6:00:07 PM UTC-5, Paul T wrote: Sorry can't afford transatlantic telephone calls - I asked a fairly simpl=3D e =3D20 question, why can't you answer this on a public forum? Assuming you are British - do a search of BGA's excellent magazine; a=20 few y=3D ears ago there was an article about a student who basically soloed in 5 fli=3D ghts by using Condor to prepare.=3D20 I believe the French CNVV has developed a full-up Condor (w/cockpit=20 and big=3D screens) glider simulator for use by French glider clubs. Our own gliding club (St Louis Soaring Association) in the US is in the pro=3D cess of building up a Condor sim with realistic flight controls and multipl=3D e big screens. Any simulator is just a training tool (Condor is technically an Aircrew Tra=3D ining Device in the lingo of the flight simulation industry) and it's effec=3D tiveness is driven by how it is used. Since the cockpit of a glider is not =3D the best classroom, used properly Condor can be a great help to the learnin=3D g process. Learn it in the sim, practice it in the glider. Kirk (been using sims for training for almost 50 years now...yikes!) =20 =20 You ask a simple question on here and get slaughtered - I asked a=20 simple question of someone who uses this method as a business , what=20 is typically the time saved using this method-its it really such a difficult=20 question to answer? Why can't htat be answered on a public forum - =20 some kind of big secret or something? If you want to ask a simple question, might I suggest you do it without an = accusatory tone. Writers including myself have given you plenty antidotal "= evidence" of simulation training as a good learning tool. I was required b= y my insurance to attend Flight Safety for yearly simulation training in a = complex aircraft I have flown. Could be Scott runs a small operation, cater= ing to glider pilots, and has not funded a multi-part double blind study la= rge enough for a statically valid result, to see if 1) Condor simulation re= duces time to ticket for; a) ab initio student; b) for licensed power pilot= s transitioning; c) rusty returning pilots; d) currency=E2=80=A6.. =20 Simulation training has been around and proven since the Link trainer in th= e big one, that is WWII. Don't blame Scott or the newsgroup for calling yo= u out on your behavior! For the most part we have a great group that are he= lpful to one another and many members are the most respected members of our= sport internationally. If you truly wanted to know you would have taken S= cott up on his offer to communication directly. Yeah at great expense to myself, sorry but I cannot afford to make transantlantic telephone calls - there was no accusatory tone - asked a simple question that's all - dont see why that can't be answered. Think you are getting a bit oversensitiveness and reading things into things that aren't there . The guy stated this was his business and made some claims in a public forum - I merely asked if he had any evidence for that and what the average time saving was - surely a simple answer like' in my experience for the 50 students that have used this method - the average student can save 2 -4 hours on R/L training' would have answered the question - cannot see why that is so hard to do? If you wish to know the reason for this - is that I with some friends are thinking of establishing a gliding club in Bulgaria - Bulgaria is one of the poorest countries in the EU - we would like to establish a club that the a person on an average income can afford to fly - average incomes are low in Bulgaria @ 400euro/month - so any money savings saved in training would be beneficial and it may pay to use a simulator in the training syllabus. Warning - thread drift. You might consider something like the LAK- 16M primary trainer. There is a short youtube video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj4oZ8bX9Oo ; aimed at younger people, but inexpensive, and looks like a lot of cheap fun. Thanks for the suggestion we are thinking used Ka2/7, Ka8, K6CR, Pirat, Bocian, and the like. There are still good ones about at low cost, probably offer a better price/performance/experience ratio - and there are quite a few disused 5-8000ft runways about in Bulgaria - car tows or simple reverse pulley would be the way to go. Maybe a bungy for mountain expeditions! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClL...O4uQXyA/videos gives you an idea of some of the conditions and scenery encountered. |
#33
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A few newbie questions about the sport
“I'll take "sealioning" for a thousand, Alex!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning” Got it in one, Bob |
#34
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A few newbie questions about the sport
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#35
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A few newbie questions about the sport
Paul T
My replies are embedded in your message below. Yeah at great expense to myself, sorry but I cannot afford to make transantlantic telephone calls I had no idea you were international. I assumed you were within the U.S. and simply offered the usual ways of communicating. Now that I know you are international, and assuming you are still interested in my opinions on the subject, I would suggest you download and install Skype. It costs nothing to install and nothing to use. My Skype ID is "scooter.manley". You would need to send me a contact request that I would accept, allowing us to communicate via Skype. - there was no accusatory tone - asked a simple question that's all Over my ten plus years of advocating for the use of flight simulation to improve glider flight training using computer-based software (Condor), the idea has been met with various levels of passive resistance. My experience has been that when someone asks for "evidence", they are more likely looking to refute my claims than looking for information. So forgive me for being gun-shy. dont see why that can't be answered. Think you are getting a bit oversensitiveness and reading things into things that aren't there . Guilty. My reluctance to respond on a public forum is based on your experience asking a question on a public forum. The guy stated this was his business Pretty sure I didn't state that. and made some claims in a public forum - While it might be "assumed" by my post that the flight training services I provide are my business, they are not. I do not solicit nor have I ever accepted offers of payment for the services I provide. The training resources I have developed and make available on my website (gliderCFI.com) are free for the taking. I do not even ask for attribution. I do what I do for the good of the sport. I ask only to be taken seriously. I merely asked if he had any evidence for that Nothing that could be considered irrefutable, only my perception of my experience with the 70 or so folks I have trained over the last 10-12 years. Many of those folks are happy to back up my claims with their testimony. and what the average time saving was - surely a simple answer like' in my experience for the 50 students that have used this method - the average student can save 2 -4 hours on R/L training' would have answered the question - cannot see why that is so hard to do? The answer is not as simple as you would imagine, but I'll give it a shot. Time savings: In one sense, simulation-based trainees will spend considerably more time (often orders of magnitude more) performing and perfecting their flight skills than do aircaft-based trainees. For example, it is possible in simulation to perform 20-30 crosswind landings in the span of one hour. Compare that to the time needed to acquire that same level of experience in an actual aircraft. While the brains of aircraft-based trainees may have 10-30 hours of flight experience upon earning their rating, the brains of simulation-based trainees will have hundreds of hours of experience. In simulation, there is no time spent waiting around for your chance to fly.. If the training is done at-a-distance (over the internet) there is no travel time to/from the airport. Simulation-based training is not limited to the available days/hours of operation of a club or commercial operation. It can be done any time of the day, any day of the week, any month of the year, and with student and instructor anywhere in the world. I could go on, but this post is already running long, and long posts are annoying. Cost savings: Computer-based flight training costs next to nothing and pales in comparison to the costs of conducting aircraft-based flight training. If you are looking to provide low-cost flight training, as you describe below, you can't beat simulation. === For more of my thoughts on the use of flight simulation to improve glider flight training (and so you don't even have to install Skype and talk to me), I would encourage you to read the 26 articles I wrote for Soaring Magazine over the span of 4.5 years. They are available on my website under the "Condor/Condor Corner" drop-down menu. Respectfully submitted for your consideration. If you wish to know the reason for this - is that I with some friends are thinking of establishing a gliding club in Bulgaria - Bulgaria is one of the poorest countries in the EU - we would like to establish a club that the a person on an average income can afford to fly - average incomes are low in Bulgaria @ 400euro/month - so any money savings saved in training would be beneficial and it may pay to use a simulator in the training syllabus. |
#36
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A few newbie questions about the sport
At 16:23 21 September 2018, Scott Manley wrote:
Paul T My replies are embedded in your message below. =20 =20 Yeah at great expense to myself, sorry but I cannot afford to make=20 transantlantic telephone calls I had no idea you were international. I assumed you were within the U.S. a= nd simply offered the usual ways of communicating. Now that I know you are= international, and assuming you are still interested in my opinions on the= subject, I would suggest you download and install Skype. It costs nothing= to install and nothing to use. My Skype ID is "scooter.manley". You woul= d need to send me a contact request that I would accept, allowing us to com= municate via Skype. - there was no accusatory tone - asked a=20 simple question that's all=20 Over my ten plus years of advocating for the use of flight simulation to im= prove glider flight training using computer-based software (Condor), the id= ea has been met with various levels of passive resistance. My experience = has been that when someone asks for "evidence", they are more likely lookin= g to refute my claims than looking for information. So forgive me for bein= g gun-shy. dont see why that can't be answered. Think=20 you are getting a bit oversensitiveness and reading things into things=20 that aren't there . Guilty. =20 My reluctance to respond on a public forum is based on your experience aski= ng a question on a public forum. =20 The guy stated this was his business Pretty sure I didn't state that. and made some=20 claims in a public forum - While it might be "assumed" by my post that the flight training services I = provide are my business, they are not. I do not solicit nor have I ever ac= cepted offers of payment for the services I provide. The training resource= s I have developed and make available on my website (gliderCFI.com) are fre= e for the taking. I do not even ask for attribution. I do what I do for t= he good of the sport. I ask only to be taken seriously. =20 I merely asked if he had any evidence for that Nothing that could be considered irrefutable, only my perception of my expe= rience with the 70 or so folks I have trained over the last 10-12 years. M= any of those folks are happy to back up my claims with their testimony.=20 =20 and what the average time saving was - surely a simple answer like' in=20 my experience for the 50 students that have used this method - the=20 average student can save 2 -4 hours on R/L training' would have=20 answered the question - cannot see why that is so hard to do? The answer is not as simple as you would imagine, but I'll give it a shot. Time savings: In one sense, simulation-based trainees will spend considerably more time (= often orders of magnitude more) performing and perfecting their flight skil= ls than do aircaft-based trainees. For example, it is possible in simulati= on to perform 20-30 crosswind landings in the span of one hour. Compare th= at to the time needed to acquire that same level of experience in an actual= aircraft. While the brains of aircraft-based trainees may have 10-30 hour= s of flight experience upon earning their rating, the brains of simulation-= based trainees will have hundreds of hours of experience. In simulation, there is no time spent waiting around for your chance to fly= .. If the training is done at-a-distance (over the internet) there is no trave= l time to/from the airport. Simulation-based training is not limited to the available days/hours of ope= ration of a club or commercial operation. It can be done any time of the d= ay, any day of the week, any month of the year, and with student and instru= ctor anywhere in the world. I could go on, but this post is already running long, and long posts are an= noying. Cost savings: Computer-based flight training costs next to nothing and pales in compariso= n to the costs of conducting aircraft-based flight training. If you are lo= oking to provide low-cost flight training, as you describe below, you can't= beat simulation. =3D=3D=3D For more of my thoughts on the use of flight simulation to improve glider f= light training (and so you don't even have to install Skype and talk to me)= , I would encourage you to read the 26 articles I wrote for Soaring Magazin= e over the span of 4.5 years. They are available on my website under the "= Condor/Condor Corner" drop-down menu. Respectfully submitted for your consideration. =20 =20 If you wish to know the reason for this - is that I with some friends are= =20 thinking of establishing a gliding club in Bulgaria - Bulgaria is one of the=20 poorest countries in the EU - we would like to establish a club that the = a =20 person on an average income can afford to fly - average incomes are low= =20 in Bulgaria @ 400euro/month - so any money savings saved in training=20 would be beneficial and it may pay to use a simulator in the training=20 syllabus. Thank you Scott - apologies about the misunderstanding about being your business and for maybe my phrasing of the original question - I shall read the articles and be in touch on 'Skype'. I am genuinely interested to know what time/cost savings this type of training can make. |
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