Do I have to file?

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

You know the answer and you're being obstinate.

The regulations require a flight plan. It is an ABSOLUTE
UNQUALFIED requirement just as the clearance is.

The discretion given ATC is to accept other than full ifr
plans from pilots in the case of popups or californicate TEC
routes.


Of course I know the answer. You said a flight plan is a prerequisite for
the clearance. ATC issues popup clearances to pilots without them having
filed any flight plan beforehand.

ATC issues popup clearances to pilots without them having
filed any flight plan beforehand.

Is the clearance issued before ATC has the information it requests of
the pilot (which would then constitute the flight plan)?

Jose
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...
You know the answer and you're being obstinate.

The regulations require a flight plan. It is an ABSOLUTE
UNQUALFIED requirement just as the clearance is.

The discretion given ATC is to accept other than full ifr
plans from pilots in the case of popups or californicate TEC
routes.


Of course I know the answer. You said a flight plan is a prerequisite for
the clearance. ATC issues popup clearances to pilots without them having
filed any flight plan beforehand.


I did NOT say that. I specifically said the opposite.
It was someone else's point that "You need a clearance, to get
a clearance you have to file." I said filing a flight plan is
an explicit requirement, not just a prerequisite to getting
a clearance.

Dave S wrote:



If you get a popup clearance from ATC.. the controller/specialist is
entering your information into the computer, and requires much if not
all the same information as if you filed on the phone.

Call sign, type/identifier, /whatever .. souls on board, etc. Point of
origin tends to be where you are at, even if airborne.

ATC does not care about alternates, souls on board, fuel on board, etc.
We want equipment suffix, altitude and route. I'll make up a speed as
I type it in.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...

I did NOT say that. I specifically said the opposite.
It was someone else's point that "You need a clearance, to get
a clearance you have to file." I said filing a flight plan is
an explicit requirement, not just a prerequisite to getting
a clearance.


Saying that a flight plan is an explicit requirement and not JUST a
prerequisite to getting a clearance is saying that it is a prerequisite for
the clearance.

"Jose" wrote in message
t...

Is the clearance issued before ATC has the information it requests of the
pilot (which would then constitute the flight plan)?


You tell me, here's a complete exchange from first call:


N2293M: "Green Bay Approach, Arrow 2293M, over Clintonville at 3000 with
Lima, request IFR clearance into Green Bay."

GRB Approach: "Arrow 2293M, Green Bay Approach, cleared to Austin Straubel
Field via radar vectors for the ILS runway 6, maintain 3000, fly heading
130, squawk 0401."

N2293M: "Arrow 93M cleared to Green Bay, maintain 3000, heading 130."

GRB Approach: "Arrow 93M radar contact one mile southeast of Clintonville."

Is the clearance issued before ATC has the information it requests of the
pilot (which would then constitute the flight plan)?

You tell me, here's a complete exchange from first call:

N2293M: "Green Bay Approach, Arrow 2293M, over Clintonville at 3000 with
Lima, request IFR clearance into Green Bay."

GRB Approach: "Arrow 2293M, Green Bay Approach, cleared to Austin Straubel
Field via radar vectors for the ILS runway 6, maintain 3000, fly heading
130, squawk 0401."

N2293M: "Arrow 93M cleared to Green Bay, maintain 3000, heading 130."

GRB Approach: "Arrow 93M radar contact one mile southeast of Clintonville."

This was a VFR flight prior to the first call, quoted above? (I assume
yes). In that case, I guess clearances can precede flight plan info.

Is Clintonville an IAP or transition for the Green Bay airport? (I
assume so, in which case I'd ask the more limited question of whether
clearance is issued before flight plan info is received, if one is not
"inside an approach plate".

Jose
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
et...

This was a VFR flight prior to the first call, quoted above?


Yes, a VFR flight not receiving any ATC services at the time of the call.



(I assume yes). In that case, I guess clearances can precede flight plan
info.

Is Clintonville an IAP or transition for the Green Bay airport? (I assume
so, in which case I'd ask the more limited question of whether clearance
is issued before flight plan info is received, if one is not "inside an
approach plate".


Clintonville Municipal Airport is about 27 miles WNW of GRB, Clintonville
NDB is on the field.

Clintonville Municipal Airport is about 27 miles WNW of GRB, Clintonville
NDB is on the field.

Ok. I guess at least one flight got its clearance when not inside an
approach plate, and prior to flight plan info being communicated.

I take it from your responses that this is normal procedure. Hmmm.
What are the criteria used to determine when flight plan info is to be
required first, and when not?

Jose
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message news
Clintonville Municipal Airport is about 27 miles WNW of GRB, Clintonville
NDB is on the field.

Ok. I guess at least one flight got its clearance when not inside an
approach plate, and prior to flight plan info being communicated.

I take it from your responses that this is normal procedure. Hmmm.
What are the criteria used to determine when flight plan info is to be
required first, and when not?

Jose


Steven's post said the initial callup included the A/C identification,
its current position, altitude, and its intended destination.
Would the controller need more flight plan information than that?