Now the neocons are inventng forgeries

Subject: Now the neocons are inventng forgeries
From: (B2431)
Date: 9/12/2004 6:25 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

From: (ArtKramr)
Date: 9/12/2004 7:05 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Subject: Now the neocons are inventng forgeries
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 9/12/2004 4:52 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

ArtKramr wrote:

Also my website and its readers which have just
reached 60,000 hits and is used as a study text in the history department
at
UNLV.

Remind me to never engage a UNLV History degree holder on WW II. The
discussion
will be too inaccurate and way too familiar.


BUFDRVR


Why would anyone interested in WW II want to discuss it with you?


Arthur Kramer

Perhaps UNLV uses your site as an example of a biased source created by a
blowhard.

Tell us again how the war couldn't have been won without you.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


Sure could have been won without you.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

From: (ArtKramr)
Date: 9/12/2004 8:44 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Subject: Now the neocons are inventng forgeries
From: (B2431)
Date: 9/12/2004 6:25 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

From: (ArtKramr)
Date: 9/12/2004 7:05 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Subject: Now the neocons are inventng forgeries
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 9/12/2004 4:52 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

ArtKramr wrote:

Also my website and its readers which have just
reached 60,000 hits and is used as a study text in the history department
at
UNLV.

Remind me to never engage a UNLV History degree holder on WW II. The
discussion
will be too inaccurate and way too familiar.


BUFDRVR


Why would anyone interested in WW II want to discuss it with you?


Arthur Kramer

Perhaps UNLV uses your site as an example of a biased source created by a
blowhard.

Tell us again how the war couldn't have been won without you.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


Sure could have been won without you.


Arthur Kramer

It was.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Subject: Now the neocons are inventng forgeries
From: Ian MacLure
Date: 9/12/2004 7:28 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote in
:

[snip]

My "rep" as you put it seems to be a matter of constant concern for

I personally could give a rats ass about your particular rep.
I just don't like seeing people throw them away.

you. My rep is important to me. But only among certain select groups.
My rep as far as the crew I flew with is very important to me as well
as Maj. Foote my squadron (494th) commander and Colonel Wittty my
group commander. And also important are my students at the New School
for Social Research in New York where I taught for many years, and

Ahh, a social scientist! That figures. Many fields rife with
pseudo-data leading to questionable conclusions more based on
politics than reality.

the readers of my articles in Modern Photography magazine were also

Here we're on safer ground. Maybe you should stick to subjects
you know.

important to me. Also my website and its readers which have just
reached 60,000 hits and is used as a study text in the history
department at UNLV. Note that you are not on the list. But I assure
you that I mean no offense in leaving you off the list. It's nothing
personal.

I care not one way or the other.
Just don't expect me to allow you to pedal your political
perversions here.

Trotskerry is toast.
There is nothing you personally can do about it.
Get used to the idea.

IBM

You Bush leaguers don't stand a chance.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

ArtKramr wrote:

Why would anyone interested in WW II want to discuss it with you?

Because I'm knowledgeable on the subject, in fact I know more about it than at
least 1 B-26 bombardier, although that really isn't saying much.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Subject: Now the neocons are inventng forgeries
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 9/13/2004 2:40 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

ArtKramr wrote:

Why would anyone interested in WW II want to discuss it with you?

Because I'm knowledgeable on the subject, in fact I know more about it than
at
least 1 B-26 bombardier, although that really isn't saying much.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it
harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"


You don't understand cabdrvr. WW II was a real shooting war. You may not
believe this but men went out on missions and some never came back. Hard to
believe since that is war outside your personal experience. But believe me, it
is true. I believe personal experience is worth more than just reading books.
But maybe you should read a few books on WW II and find out what a real
shooting war is all about Of course the book will never give you the feeling
you might get over the heavily defended Cologne marshalling yards, but try to
imagine what it was like. If you can't experience it, you can at least dream
about it. Then you can tell everyone how much you know about WW II.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Art wrote:
You don't understand cabdrvr. WW II was a real shooting war. You may not
believe this but men went out on missions and some never came back. Hard to
believe since that is war outside your personal experience.

Hey Art,
Revolutionary War, War of 1812, Mexican War, Civil War, Spanish American War,
WWI, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm and others were all "Shooting Wars". What
gives you the expertise on ALL wars?
ETO in WWII also consisted of more than B-26 missions.
Your service is appreciated, but you are not the fountain of all knowledge
about war and definitely not an expert about all things military.
For the past year you have been presenting yourself as a bitter old man.
What the hell is up with you?

Rick Clark

Subject: Now the neocons are inventng forgeries
From: (OXMORON1)
Date: 9/14/2004 6:24 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Art wrote:
You don't understand cabdrvr. WW II was a real shooting war. You may not
believe this but men went out on missions and some never came back. Hard to
believe since that is war outside your personal experience.

Hey Art,
Revolutionary War, War of 1812, Mexican War, Civil War, Spanish American War,
WWI, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm and others were all "Shooting Wars". What
gives you the expertise on ALL wars?
ETO in WWII also consisted of more than B-26 missions.
Your service is appreciated, but you are not the fountain of all knowledge
about war and definitely not an expert about all things military.
For the past year you have been presenting yourself as a bitter old man.
What the hell is up with you?

Rick Clark


I'm not bitter at all. In fact I have had a very good,productive adventurious
life with a good deal of success along the way. And I am now comfortably
retired enjoying the university, my skeet shooting as well as a good deal of
photographic work. It is just that I never suffer fools gladly and care when my
country falls into evil incompetent hands. And I'll speak out clearly and
boldly in that case.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Art,

Your problem and the reason for your screwed up perception is that you
equate emotional involvement with intellectual knowledge. No book will give
you the "feelings" associated with experiencing combat - although many come
close. Direct experience alone will not give you the in depth knowledge of
all aspects of a specific war that can be gained from reading and analyzing
the information that is available.

You experienced the emotions of combat. You refuse to experience or even
acknowledge that the intellectual / analytical side exists. That does not
make you a better person, it makes you a closed minded, vindictive, and
obnoxious little man who could be a positive example of a WW II veteran
instead of an embarrassment to those who honorably served their country in
uniform.

Jack G.

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Now the neocons are inventng forgeries
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 9/13/2004 2:40 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

ArtKramr wrote:

Why would anyone interested in WW II want to discuss it with you?

Because I'm knowledgeable on the subject, in fact I know more about it
than
at
least 1 B-26 bombardier, although that really isn't saying much.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it
harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"


You don't understand cabdrvr. WW II was a real shooting war. You may not
believe this but men went out on missions and some never came back. Hard
to
believe since that is war outside your personal experience. But believe
me, it
is true. I believe personal experience is worth more than just reading
books.
But maybe you should read a few books on WW II and find out what a real
shooting war is all about Of course the book will never give you the
feeling
you might get over the heavily defended Cologne marshalling yards, but try
to
imagine what it was like. If you can't experience it, you can at least
dream
about it. Then you can tell everyone how much you know about WW II.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: Now the neocons are inventng forgeries
From: "Jack G"
Date: 9/14/2004 6:40 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: TwC1d.3173$g9.2606@trnddc06

Art,

Your problem and the reason for your screwed up perception is that you
equate emotional involvement with intellectual knowledge. No book will give
you the "feelings" associated with experiencing combat - although many come
close. Direct experience alone will not give you the in depth knowledge of
all aspects of a specific war that can be gained from reading and analyzing
the information that is available.

You experienced the emotions of combat. You refuse to experience or even
acknowledge that the intellectual / analytical side exists. That does not
make you a better person, it makes you a closed minded, vindictive, and
obnoxious little man who could be a positive example of a WW II veteran
instead of an embarrassment to those who honorably served their country in
uniform.

Jack G.

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Now the neocons are inventng forgeries
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 9/13/2004 2:40 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

ArtKramr wrote:

Why would anyone interested in WW II want to discuss it with you?

Because I'm knowledgeable on the subject, in fact I know more about it
than
at
least 1 B-26 bombardier, although that really isn't saying much.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it
harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"


You don't understand cabdrvr. WW II was a real shooting war. You may not
believe this but men went out on missions and some never came back. Hard
to
believe since that is war outside your personal experience. But believe
me, it
is true. I believe personal experience is worth more than just reading
books.
But maybe you should read a few books on WW II and find out what a real
shooting war is all about Of course the book will never give you the
feeling
you might get over the heavily defended Cologne marshalling yards, but try
to
imagine what it was like. If you can't experience it, you can at least
dream
about it. Then you can tell everyone how much you know about WW II.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

ubject: Now the neocons are inventng forgeries
From: "Jack G"
Date: 9/14/2004 6:40 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: TwC1d.3173$g9.2606@trnddc06


Your problem and the reason for your screwed up perception is that you
equate emotional involvement with intellectual knowledge. No book will give
you the "feelings" associated with experiencing combat - although many come
close. Direct experience alone will not give you the in depth knowledge of
all aspects of a specific war that can be gained from reading and analyzing
the information that is available.

You experienced the emotions of combat. You refuse to experience or even
acknowledge that the intellectual / analytical side exists. That does not
make you a better person, it makes you a closed minded, vindictive, and
obnoxious little man who could be a positive example of a WW II veteran
instead of an embarrassment to those who honorably served their country in
uniform.

Jack G.


I responded to your post in a polite manner without personal insult of any
kind. You responded with a barrage of hate and vitriol indicating clearly that
it is you who are twisted and bitter. **** you. No offense of course.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer