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Buy Glider without looking



 
 
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  #31  
Old December 15th 17, 02:37 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Steve Leonard[_2_]
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Posts: 938
Default Buy Glider without looking

On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:32:09 PM UTC-6, Casey wrote:

So my conclusion is either; 1) scammers are hitting Wings and Wheels,


Yes, they are. Have been for a long time. They have also cruised soaridaho. Most recent inquiry on HP-14 projects I have listed there (listing from 2010!) started off sounding maybe real. Second e-mail from him had a pdf attached. I responded with "Now, why on earth would I open a pdf from someone who is wanting to buy something from me? Try again, buddy." Poof! He was gone.

Some who are real will seem fake, and some who are fake may seem real. Answer inquiries, sort out, and be cautious.

Steve Leonard

Ads
  #32  
Old December 15th 17, 07:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 498
Default Buy Glider without looking

On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:38:00 PM UTC-8, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:32:09 PM UTC-6, Casey wrote:

So my conclusion is either; 1) scammers are hitting Wings and Wheels,


Yes, they are. Have been for a long time. They have also cruised soaridaho. Most recent inquiry on HP-14 projects I have listed there (listing from 2010!) started off sounding maybe real. Second e-mail from him had a pdf attached. I responded with "Now, why on earth would I open a pdf from someone who is wanting to buy something from me? Try again, buddy." Poof! He was gone.

Some who are real will seem fake, and some who are fake may seem real. Answer inquiries, sort out, and be cautious.

Steve Leonard


Weeding out the scammers is, unfortunately, a necessity these days when selling high valued goods. Have them provide a banking reference (bank, name, address). They will have to have this to complete the transaction; if they balk they're likely scammers. The other option is to have them show up at your location with cash - scammers will NEVER do that. Bottom line: only accept a wire transfer of their funds into your account (NO cashier's checks unless you KNOW the buyer). This cuts thru all of the bull****. That is what I did on the last gliders I bought and sold.

Tom
  #33  
Old December 15th 17, 06:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,344
Default Buy Glider without looking

The last glider I sold, the buyer came to inspect the ship.* It was
clear he was a good guy from the USA so I accepted his personal check
for a down payment.* I agreed to deliver the glider half way to his
place and he wired the remaining funds into my account before I left
Moriarty.* I didn't ask for that; it just worked out that way with
banking hours, etc.* We met in a motel parking lot in Kingman, AZ, we
and our wives shared dinner, he paid for dinner and our rooms, and we
parted as friends, both of us happy.* My wife and I also enjoyed the
road trip down old Route 66 through Peach Springs, AZ.* Do you remember
Burma Shave ads?

On 12/14/2017 11:07 PM, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:38:00 PM UTC-8, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:32:09 PM UTC-6, Casey wrote:

So my conclusion is either; 1) scammers are hitting Wings and Wheels,

Yes, they are. Have been for a long time. They have also cruised soaridaho. Most recent inquiry on HP-14 projects I have listed there (listing from 2010!) started off sounding maybe real. Second e-mail from him had a pdf attached. I responded with "Now, why on earth would I open a pdf from someone who is wanting to buy something from me? Try again, buddy." Poof! He was gone.

Some who are real will seem fake, and some who are fake may seem real. Answer inquiries, sort out, and be cautious.

Steve Leonard

Weeding out the scammers is, unfortunately, a necessity these days when selling high valued goods. Have them provide a banking reference (bank, name, address). They will have to have this to complete the transaction; if they balk they're likely scammers. The other option is to have them show up at your location with cash - scammers will NEVER do that. Bottom line: only accept a wire transfer of their funds into your account (NO cashier's checks unless you KNOW the buyer). This cuts thru all of the bull****. That is what I did on the last gliders I bought and sold.

Tom


--
Dan, 5J
  #34  
Old December 16th 17, 12:26 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Kuykendall
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Posts: 1,226
Default Buy Glider without looking

On Wednesday, December 6, 2017 at 10:52:01 AM UTC-8, Bob Kuykendall wrote:

Does existence exist?


If existence has feelings, we're sure to get a Pixar movie about it soon.
  #35  
Old December 17th 17, 02:23 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 498
Default Buy Glider without looking

On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 9:11:38 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
The last glider I sold, the buyer came to inspect the ship.* It was
clear he was a good guy from the USA so I accepted his personal check
for a down payment.* I agreed to deliver the glider half way to his
place and he wired the remaining funds into my account before I left
Moriarty.* I didn't ask for that; it just worked out that way with
banking hours, etc.* We met in a motel parking lot in Kingman, AZ, we
and our wives shared dinner, he paid for dinner and our rooms, and we
parted as friends, both of us happy.* My wife and I also enjoyed the
road trip down old Route 66 through Peach Springs, AZ.* Do you remember
Burma Shave ads?

On 12/14/2017 11:07 PM, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:38:00 PM UTC-8, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:32:09 PM UTC-6, Casey wrote:

So my conclusion is either; 1) scammers are hitting Wings and Wheels,
Yes, they are. Have been for a long time. They have also cruised soaridaho. Most recent inquiry on HP-14 projects I have listed there (listing from 2010!) started off sounding maybe real. Second e-mail from him had a pdf attached. I responded with "Now, why on earth would I open a pdf from someone who is wanting to buy something from me? Try again, buddy." Poof! He was gone.

Some who are real will seem fake, and some who are fake may seem real. Answer inquiries, sort out, and be cautious.

Steve Leonard

Weeding out the scammers is, unfortunately, a necessity these days when selling high valued goods. Have them provide a banking reference (bank, name, address). They will have to have this to complete the transaction; if they balk they're likely scammers. The other option is to have them show up at your location with cash - scammers will NEVER do that. Bottom line: only accept a wire transfer of their funds into your account (NO cashier's checks unless you KNOW the buyer). This cuts thru all of the bull****. That is what I did on the last gliders I bought and sold.

Tom


--
Dan, 5J


A personal check, or a cashier's check, is ok if you have the luxury of time. It will take up to a week for the check to clear (US bank only). I wouldn't even think of it for a foreign bank. This helps make the sale take place, which is what you are trying to make happen in the first place.

Delivery should be explicitly stated in the original ad. For instance, you can state you will deliver the glider within an xx mile radius at no cost. Or you can add a mileage cost. It's all up to you. This usually reflects how hard or soft the market is for used gliders, and the economy overall. Basically, tho, once payment is made the new owner takes possession and it is up to him/her to move it (and don't forget about insurance!)

Tom
  #36  
Old December 17th 17, 05:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,344
Default Buy Glider without looking

As I said, he was a good guy and I like to think that I am, too. Moving
the ship was my suggestion as he was on the west coast and I felt the
need for a road trip any way (I'm retired).* The insurance was mine
until I handed him the keys to the trailer then I called my insurance
agent and told him that I'd sold the glider.* It was a one time thing.*
Some times you can tell if a deal is fishy but this time I knew it was
not.* There was time for the personal check to clear but the thought
never crossed my mind.

When I sold my Pipistrel, the buyer gave me a personal check for the
down payment and flew back down to Moriarty a week or so later to pick
it up.* Again his check cleared.* Final payment was mostly with a wire
transfer but also with a wad of cash.* Insurance was handled as previously.

When I bought my LAK-17a, I drove 500 or so miles to look at it and took
it for a 2 hour test flight.* We agreed on the sale and the next day I
wired the money, took possession, and drove away.

Not every transaction has to be hard assed, but there is the time for
that, too.

On 12/16/2017 6:23 PM, 2G wrote:
On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 9:11:38 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
The last glider I sold, the buyer came to inspect the ship.* It was
clear he was a good guy from the USA so I accepted his personal check
for a down payment.* I agreed to deliver the glider half way to his
place and he wired the remaining funds into my account before I left
Moriarty.* I didn't ask for that; it just worked out that way with
banking hours, etc.* We met in a motel parking lot in Kingman, AZ, we
and our wives shared dinner, he paid for dinner and our rooms, and we
parted as friends, both of us happy.* My wife and I also enjoyed the
road trip down old Route 66 through Peach Springs, AZ.* Do you remember
Burma Shave ads?

On 12/14/2017 11:07 PM, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:38:00 PM UTC-8, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:32:09 PM UTC-6, Casey wrote:

So my conclusion is either; 1) scammers are hitting Wings and Wheels,
Yes, they are. Have been for a long time. They have also cruised soaridaho. Most recent inquiry on HP-14 projects I have listed there (listing from 2010!) started off sounding maybe real. Second e-mail from him had a pdf attached. I responded with "Now, why on earth would I open a pdf from someone who is wanting to buy something from me? Try again, buddy." Poof! He was gone.

Some who are real will seem fake, and some who are fake may seem real. Answer inquiries, sort out, and be cautious.

Steve Leonard
Weeding out the scammers is, unfortunately, a necessity these days when selling high valued goods. Have them provide a banking reference (bank, name, address). They will have to have this to complete the transaction; if they balk they're likely scammers. The other option is to have them show up at your location with cash - scammers will NEVER do that. Bottom line: only accept a wire transfer of their funds into your account (NO cashier's checks unless you KNOW the buyer). This cuts thru all of the bull****. That is what I did on the last gliders I bought and sold.

Tom

--
Dan, 5J

A personal check, or a cashier's check, is ok if you have the luxury of time. It will take up to a week for the check to clear (US bank only). I wouldn't even think of it for a foreign bank. This helps make the sale take place, which is what you are trying to make happen in the first place.

Delivery should be explicitly stated in the original ad. For instance, you can state you will deliver the glider within an xx mile radius at no cost. Or you can add a mileage cost. It's all up to you. This usually reflects how hard or soft the market is for used gliders, and the economy overall. Basically, tho, once payment is made the new owner takes possession and it is up to him/her to move it (and don't forget about insurance!)

Tom


--
Dan, 5J
  #37  
Old December 18th 17, 08:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default Buy Glider without looking

Many warnings here re scams are apposite.

That being said the practice is very common, but almost always occurs either because the buyer & seller know and trust each other, or because the buyer knows somebody who has seen the sailplane and vouches for it.

The common problem from a buyer's POV is that if you are going to travel a long way to get a glider, you are in a very weak position to dicker when you get there. It's a whole lot smarter to have somebody you trust look it over for you, even if you pay them something ... than to drive a 1000 miles and then face going home empty handed, or upset that you wouldn't have paid that much "had you known."
  #38  
Old December 19th 17, 06:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 498
Default Buy Glider without looking

On Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 8:38:56 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
As I said, he was a good guy and I like to think that I am, too. Moving
the ship was my suggestion as he was on the west coast and I felt the
need for a road trip any way (I'm retired).* The insurance was mine
until I handed him the keys to the trailer then I called my insurance
agent and told him that I'd sold the glider.* It was a one time thing.*
Some times you can tell if a deal is fishy but this time I knew it was
not.* There was time for the personal check to clear but the thought
never crossed my mind.

When I sold my Pipistrel, the buyer gave me a personal check for the
down payment and flew back down to Moriarty a week or so later to pick
it up.* Again his check cleared.* Final payment was mostly with a wire
transfer but also with a wad of cash.* Insurance was handled as previously.

When I bought my LAK-17a, I drove 500 or so miles to look at it and took
it for a 2 hour test flight.* We agreed on the sale and the next day I
wired the money, took possession, and drove away.

Not every transaction has to be hard assed, but there is the time for
that, too.

On 12/16/2017 6:23 PM, 2G wrote:
On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 9:11:38 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
The last glider I sold, the buyer came to inspect the ship.* It was
clear he was a good guy from the USA so I accepted his personal check
for a down payment.* I agreed to deliver the glider half way to his
place and he wired the remaining funds into my account before I left
Moriarty.* I didn't ask for that; it just worked out that way with
banking hours, etc.* We met in a motel parking lot in Kingman, AZ, we
and our wives shared dinner, he paid for dinner and our rooms, and we
parted as friends, both of us happy.* My wife and I also enjoyed the
road trip down old Route 66 through Peach Springs, AZ.* Do you remember
Burma Shave ads?

On 12/14/2017 11:07 PM, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:38:00 PM UTC-8, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 5:32:09 PM UTC-6, Casey wrote:

So my conclusion is either; 1) scammers are hitting Wings and Wheels,
Yes, they are. Have been for a long time. They have also cruised soaridaho. Most recent inquiry on HP-14 projects I have listed there (listing from 2010!) started off sounding maybe real. Second e-mail from him had a pdf attached. I responded with "Now, why on earth would I open a pdf from someone who is wanting to buy something from me? Try again, buddy." Poof! He was gone.

Some who are real will seem fake, and some who are fake may seem real. Answer inquiries, sort out, and be cautious.

Steve Leonard
Weeding out the scammers is, unfortunately, a necessity these days when selling high valued goods. Have them provide a banking reference (bank, name, address). They will have to have this to complete the transaction; if they balk they're likely scammers. The other option is to have them show up at your location with cash - scammers will NEVER do that. Bottom line: only accept a wire transfer of their funds into your account (NO cashier's checks unless you KNOW the buyer). This cuts thru all of the bull****. That is what I did on the last gliders I bought and sold.

Tom
--
Dan, 5J

A personal check, or a cashier's check, is ok if you have the luxury of time. It will take up to a week for the check to clear (US bank only). I wouldn't even think of it for a foreign bank. This helps make the sale take place, which is what you are trying to make happen in the first place.

Delivery should be explicitly stated in the original ad. For instance, you can state you will deliver the glider within an xx mile radius at no cost. Or you can add a mileage cost. It's all up to you. This usually reflects how hard or soft the market is for used gliders, and the economy overall. Basically, tho, once payment is made the new owner takes possession and it is up to him/her to move it (and don't forget about insurance!)

Tom


--
Dan, 5J


My comment wasn't directed towards you (your sale was completed w/o any problems) - it was directed towards those that hadn't been thru it before. Note: you really don't know when the check clears. You bank will credit the amount to your account before it clears based on several factors. If you are running balances in excess of the check amount and have been doing business with the bank for a number of years they will allow to use that amount before they get the money from the payer's bank. But try doing that for a very large amount and you can expect your bank to put a hold on that check until it clears the payer's bank. The one week figure is just an estimate. The advantage of a wire transfer means you know with certainty that the transaction is complete.

Again, glider sellers bewa cashier's checks can, and are, forged.

Another issue on buying any aircraft is its title. There have been cases of people selling planes that they did not have clear title to (their banks did). Get title insurance if you are not absolutely certain of the seller, and then buy it anyway even if you are.
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...need-it-or-not
https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft...scrow-services
https://www.aictitle.com/
http://www.federalaviationtitle.com/...insurance.html

Tom
  #39  
Old December 20th 17, 01:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,088
Default Buy Glider without looking

wrote on 12/18/2017 11:55 AM:
The common problem from a buyer's POV is that if you are going to travel a long way to get a glider, you are in a very weak position to dicker when you get there. It's a whole lot smarter to have somebody you trust look it over for you, even if you pay them something ... than to drive a 1000 miles and then face going home empty handed, or upset that you wouldn't have paid that much "had you known."


Twice, I dealt with that problem by meeting the seller half-way. Then, each of you
are in the same position; also, it's in his interest to ensure you know what the
glider is like, and to make sure the trailer is road-worthy. These were for
gliders costing less than $13,000 each.

If you are buying an expensive glider (say, $40,000 or more), fly there and look
at it. A few hundred dollars for an airline ticket is only a 1% or so of your
acquisition cost, and could save you many thousands.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf
  #40  
Old December 26th 17, 05:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathon May[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 88
Default Buy Glider without looking

At 13:47 06 December 2017, AS wrote:
On Wednesday, December 6, 2017 at 7:08:00 AM UTC-5,

wrote:
On Wednesday, December 6, 2017 at 6:26:52 AM UTC-5, Casey

wrote:
Has anyone every sold a glider without the buyer looking at

it?
=20
I have my glider listed for sell and the guy is buying without

looking
=
at it and sending a cashiers check and arranging shipping....sound
familiar=
..
=20
Casey

=20
I have sold 2 gliders w/o buyer seeing it but your question (I

assume
ton=
gue in cheek) raises red flags. My local gliderport had 3 gliders

listed
f=
or sale and all 3 of us got the same offer. The language in the

offer
ofte=
n intimates the buyer has no knowledge of soaring. One buyer

gave a
mailing=
address which I Googled. It was a vacant house! Check the SSA

website to
=
determine if the buyer is a member. If the offer still doesn't pass

the
sm=
ell test insist the buyer send his rep to inspect the ship.

One buyer gave a mailing address which I Googled. It was a

vacant
hous=
e!
That poor Nigerian Prince probably had to sell all his earthly

belongings
a=
nd move out of his house just to afford your glider! C'mon - have

a heart
a=
nd accept his offer - it's close to Christmas! ;-)
But seriously - the same scam is being pulled worldwide on

anything from
pl=
anes, cars and boats. The German soaring forum is full of

warnings about
it=
.. A serious buyer will not object to presenting a cashier's check or

a
bank=
transfer. =20

Uli
'AS'

Just had a gent offer full £154,000.00 for my duo and wants me to
send my detail so he can send a cheque.
Well it is Christmas !


 




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