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#21
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Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
vic20owner wrote:
....I am primarily interested in a Let Blanik L-23 or L-12 simply because I am flying an L-23 in my lessons and enjoy it quite a bit. If you have *any* desire to fly xc, do *not* buy the Blanik - unless you're guaranteed to land out at an airport and get an aero retrieve home :-). As the joy of flying is important, so is the joy (or lack thereof), of rigging and derigging. Also. it's much easier to get one helper to pull you out of that hay field than the 2 or 3 helpers that you'd need for the Blanik. Tony LS6-b "6N" |
#22
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Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
Another thing, K-8's sell from 1500€ (2000$). These planes are still
flyable and have pased inspection in the last year as here in Germany all planes get inspected yearly by the LVB. I checked about shipping on 2 months ago and was quoted a price of 2000€ from Bremerhaven to Charleston. Just another thought! Although the K-8 is not and I repeat not as pretty as the 1-26! Bob |
#23
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Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
Guys, great info ... many points I was not aware of regarding the
Blanik. Obviously I meant L-13 not L-12.. but anyway, sounds like I have quite a bit more to consider than I had initially thought. Also, I hadn't considered buying from over seas but this sounds like a good option also... except for perhaps finding a way to inspect the plane prior to purchase. I have not flown a 1-26 yet, only a Grob 103 and the Blanik, however I would have no problem with a 1-26 aside from the single seat. If I went that route, I suppose I could rent a glider when i want to take someone else flying. -tom |
#24
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Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
In article
, vic20owner wrote: I have not flown a 1-26 yet, only a Grob 103 and the Blanik, however I would have no problem with a 1-26 aside from the single seat. If I went that route, I suppose I could rent a glider when i want to take someone else flying. In my opinion, and that of a lot of people I've talked to who are much smarter than me, this is the right way to think about a purchase. A lot of people say, "I want to buy a two-seater so I can give rides!" But look around you: how many glider owners do you see who own a two-seater? Odds are that it's a very small proportion. (At my club the number has been either 1 or 0 since I joined, as compared to perhaps a dozen single-seaters.) What's the point of buying your own glider? Obviously individual reasons vary, but it's typically so you can take it places, so you can fly it cross country, so you can stay up as long as you want (and as long as the weather allows) without someone telling you that your hour is up, and so you can have something that's nicer than what your local club or glider rental has to offer. What happens when you take a passenger? They're usually around your home field, so no need to take it places. They're rarely interested in flying cross country. Half the time they get uncomfortable (or sick) if you try to push past 30-60 minutes airborne. And knowing nothing about gliders, they'll probably completely fail to appreciate how much better your machine is than the club's. It's possible that your situation is different, of course, but if you're like most people, your best bet is to buy a good single-seater that you will enjoy for your solo flying, and rent a convenient two-seater for the relatively rare occasions when you take people for rides. -- Mike Ash Radio Free Earth Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon |
#25
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Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
On May 5, 9:39*am, vic20owner wrote:
No, I am not planning to buy anything for at least a year ... but I have often wondered what other "hidden" expenses or obstacles there are associated with buying a used glider. I regularly see older planes in the $10K USD range (which is well within my price range). * BUT, for future reference, what inspections are required for the glider to be considered air worthy, and what else should I know before considering such a purchase aside from obvious structural damage or electrical problems? *How much damage should I consider "normal wear and tear" such as delaminating wing tips, bent rudder, etc which is a relatively easy repair versus something which is major (wing struts, etc)? Also, is there any specific paperwork (flight hours, maintenance records, etc) I should insist on seeing, etc. *Is it common to pay someone else to inspect the aircraft prior to purchase? Lastly, are there any specific gliders one should avoid as a first used glider? (such as homebuilt kit planes, etc)? Thanks -tom If you plan to fly alot, buy a single seat ship. If you turn out like most of the pilots I know, you'll probably fly solo a majority of the time. For the occasions when you want to take someone for ride, rent the club two-seater. Do not base your purchase options solely on the ships you learn in. There's way too many possibilities for a better fit for your needs than to be limiting yourself so much. To help get you started in your research for your first ship, pick up a hard copy of the sailplane directory. There's a nice section by Derek Piggot regarding different ships and handling qualities/ suitability for low-timers. It also gives other good information like cockpit size, rigging difficulty, ground handling, etc. You could also take a look at Piggot's book "Gliding Safety". It also has some good information about the suitability of certain ships as a "first glider". Good luck! |
#26
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Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
Brian Bange wrote:
You can get a LAK12 with almost twice the L/D for the same price, but watch your friends scatter when you open the box. Or you can purchase a LAK-12 with PU finish with proper rigging aids such that it is easily assembled by one man. Then have a good set of full covers (such as Jaxida) and leave the ship assembled during soaring season. Upon arrival at the airport you are "ready to fly" in under 5 minutes. Yes. I have exactly that ship with that setup for sale. ;-) Regards, -Doug p.s. the LAK-12 is not a beginner's sailplane, though it is easy to fly. |
#27
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Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
Bob wrote:
Another thing, K-8's sell from 1500€ (2000$). These planes are still flyable and have pased inspection in the last year as here in Germany all planes get inspected yearly by the LVB. I checked about shipping on 2 months ago and was quoted a price of 2000€ from Bremerhaven to Charleston. K8s are fun to fly, but very dispiriting if you have any headwind at all. If you have USD10-20k to spend, and want to do any more than soar locally around your home airfield, then glass is the only way to go IMHO. I've had fun flying a K6, in which you can do good XC flying, but this also becomes too tiring for a new XC pilot - serious XC in a K6 is for the more experienced pilot. The advantage of anything with a claimed 38:1 L/D or better (Astir, ASW15, Libelle, etc) is that you can fly into wind and sample more than one or two potential thermals. With the K6, K8 and, I suspect, the I-26, if you don't connect first or second time you're on the ground. As other posters have said, you will want a glider which (a) has a good trailer and (b) is easy to rig. Every glider is made easier to rig with two or more trestles (wood, nails hinges and carpet - dead easy to build), and one man rigging gear can be really effective if you have space in the trailer to store it. As an example, I fly a 1968 Open Cirrus, which has pretty heavy wings and is not thought easy to rig. With home-made (sub-USD100) rigging gear I can assemble it without help in up to 15kt winds in about 20 mins. This means I can take it anywhere to fly it, and even self-retrieve by hitch-hiking back and collecting the trailer (though I've not yet alienated my friends so much as to need to do so). I used to fly a Grob Astir (again, not thought easy to rig), and using two trestles and a simple wing root dolly two of us could assemble it in 15 mins with almost no lifting. One man rig would have been possible if the trailer had had space to store the gear. Leaving the glider assembled is very much over-rated. Apart from anything else, if you're experienced in putting it together and taking it apart, then you have no fear of heading off XC because, after all, it needs to be disassembled somewhere (so why not a field?). I've known friends who don't fly XC because they're afraid they'll have problems retrieving the glider if they land out - I know mine will be back in the trailer in 15 mins, so off I go. In summary, my advice would be: a. Buy 38:1 L/D (claimed) or better; b. A good trailer is essential; c. Assemble/dissassemble every time you fly until this is no barrier to flying/going somewhere - make as many rigging aids as you need to make this easy. d. Fly it lots! Rig unless it's clearly not soarable. Don't be one of those pilots who says, mid-afternoon, "it would have been worth rigging after all". If you don't launch, it's only 15 mins (see (c) above) to put the glider back in its trailer after all. |
#28
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Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
Chris Reed wrote:
Leaving the glider assembled is very much over-rated. Apart from anything else, if you're experienced in putting it together and taking it apart, then you have no fear of heading off XC because, after all, it needs to be disassembled somewhere (so why not a field?). I've known friends who don't fly XC because they're afraid they'll have problems retrieving the glider if they land out My experience was just the opposite. I had my longest x-country flight ever in the LAK-12, i.e., I ventured much farther away from home. The glide and performance are very confidence-inspiring. But I agree with you that one should have competent rigging/derigging aids, which my LAK has, so that fear of land-out is removed from the equation. I have no fear whatsoever of outlanding and field derigging. They are easy to take apart because precision alignment is not an issue. Reassembling however is best done on a hard and level surface back at the airport. Regards, -Doug |
#29
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Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
On May 6, 9:32*pm, Chris Reed wrote:
Bob wrote: Another thing, K-8's sell from 1500€ (2000$). These planes are still flyable and have pased inspection in the last year as here in Germany all planes get inspected yearly by the LVB. I checked about shipping on 2 months ago and was quoted a price of 2000€ from Bremerhaven to Charleston. K8s are fun to fly, but very dispiriting if you have any headwind at all. If you have USD10-20k to spend, and want to do any more than soar locally around your home airfield, then glass is the only way to go IMHO. I've had fun flying a K6, in which you can do good XC flying, but this also becomes too tiring for a new XC pilot - serious XC in a K6 is for the more experienced pilot. Chris I wasn't advocating the K-8 as much as giving it as an alternative to the 1-26, same performance for less money. I agree totally about glass! An Astir, Cirrus, ASW15... The list is endless and all can be had for 10-20$ with sutable (not perfect but usable) trailer. Bob (Who's first plane purchase is a part of a Nimbus 3DT) |
#30
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Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
Dont rule out a share in a higher performance 2 seater. At our club we have
about 8 syndicates with high performance 2 seaters such as AS25, Duo Discus, DG1000t and Nimbus 3dt. The share price would be about the same but the running costs, insurance etc are split several ways. The advantages are that you are very often flying with experienced pilots ( I can think of several national champions and national team members.)who can teach and coach you in cross country techniques and advanced soaring. It is also companionable and one can be flying the aircraft whilst the other is navigating, sorting out the sandwiches, using the radio etc. Nigel |
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