WxWorx is shipping, looking for first feedback

"Dave" wrote in message
m...
my implication was that if you're flying "hard IFR", you're in IMC on
an IFR flight plan, and would thus be subject to 91.21.

91.21 applies to all flight. If you think that WxWorx with a laptop is not
legal for "hard IFR" (which most of us call "hard IMC") based on 91.21, then
you think it is not legal under any circumstances. Do you really think
that?

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message ...
"Dave" wrote in message
m...
my implication was that if you're flying "hard IFR", you're in IMC on
an IFR flight plan, and would thus be subject to 91.21.

91.21 applies to all flight. If you think that WxWorx with a laptop is not
legal for "hard IFR" (which most of us call "hard IMC") based on 91.21, then
you think it is not legal under any circumstances. Do you really think
that?

Pete

I, and many pilots I know, interpret this rule to mean that flying
under part 91 on an IFR flight plan, it is illegal to use any portable
electronics not FAA-approved. This rule says nothing about VFR
operations. I think the issue at hand is if you are in the soup and
using an 'unapproved' piece of electronic equipment that you really
don't know for certain will or won't cause interferenec with your
equipment, then you shouldn't be using it. Another idea may be that
if you are fiddling with a laptop sitting in your lap, right seat or
even a pedistal between seats, that's time that you're not focused on
the instruments.

"Dave" wrote in message
om...
I, and many pilots I know, interpret this rule to mean that flying
under part 91 on an IFR flight plan, it is illegal to use any portable
electronics not FAA-approved.

Sounds like you've changed your tune. Before, you were claiming the
regulation prohibited use of electronics when flying "hard IFR". Now you've
apparently figured out that only the flight rules under which the flight is
made matter, and that the meteorological conditions are irrelevant.

Glad you came around...

Perhaps I should clarify rather than change my tune. Hard IFR would
imply to me that you are flying under IFR. When the FAA says "under
IFR", I take that to mean you are filed - regardless of whether the
conditions warrant it. But an being on an IFR flight plan would not
necessarily imply that the conditions are IMC.

So, yeah - you could be flying an IFR plan(i.e. "under IFR") with
perfectly good VFR conditions. The reg would indicate that *any*time
you are on an IFR plan (i.e. "under IFR"), regardless of the weather,
you can't use portable electronics. My original comment about not
being able to use the laptop while in "hard IFR" implied that you are
flying on an IFR plan (i.e. "under IFR"), hence under IFR regs and
could not therefore legally use it.

"Dave" wrote in message
m...
[...] My original comment about not
being able to use the laptop while in "hard IFR" implied that you are
flying on an IFR plan (i.e. "under IFR"), hence under IFR regs and
could not therefore legally use it.

Suppose I told you "it's illegal to fly an airplane IFR without a current
annual inspection". Suppose you didn't already know that annual inspections
are required for ALL flight in Normal category aircraft (among others),
whether IFR or not. Do you feel that my statement would be useful? That
is, that it would tell you what you need to know?

Even given that you know annuals are required for VFR flight, do you think
what I said was -- even though completely true -- a useful contribution to a
discussion?

The use of "hard IFR" in your original statement implied (without actually
saying so) that the regulation applies *only* to "hard IFR" flight. It is
this misleading nature of your original statement that Dan (and subsequently
I) was taking issue with.

Pete

My definition of "hard" IFR is solid clouds, moderate turbulence,
up/down drafts, and no autopilot for say, 3 hours straight. Then a
landing to minimums.

I believe the distinction you were shooting for was "IMC" vs. "VMC" on
an IFR flight plan.

A clarification on one point. You say you cannot "use" portable devices
on an IFR flight. Maybe you made this distinction in an earlier post to
this thread, but I don't believe there are any regs that say you cannot
"use" portable, non installed, or non approved electronics at any time
(VFR or IFR). They cannot be relied upon as "primary" sources of
navigation (information). They also cannot "interfere" with those
primary instruments/electronics. Having an IPAQ hooked up to an inertial
unit to display pitch and bank, and having a portable moving map running
while on an IFR flight is, I believe, perfectly legal. However, to make
the IFR flight "legally", you must have approved instruments and
navigational gear running as your "primary" sources of flight information.

Now, if you have an accident (and live), there is always the possibility
you could be dinged by the FAA or the insurance company for having that
stuff "in the way" or "causing a distraction" that led to the accident.
I believe this would fit in the FAA's "careless and reckless" operation
category.

I have to dust off the regs and check. It has been a few years since I
had to take the test.

Mike

Dave wrote:
Perhaps I should clarify rather than change my tune. Hard IFR would
imply to me that you are flying under IFR. When the FAA says "under
IFR", I take that to mean you are filed - regardless of whether the
conditions warrant it. But an being on an IFR flight plan would not
necessarily imply that the conditions are IMC.

So, yeah - you could be flying an IFR plan(i.e. "under IFR") with
perfectly good VFR conditions. The reg would indicate that *any*time
you are on an IFR plan (i.e. "under IFR"), regardless of the weather,
you can't use portable electronics. My original comment about not
being able to use the laptop while in "hard IFR" implied that you are
flying on an IFR plan (i.e. "under IFR"), hence under IFR regs and
could not therefore legally use it.


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