New ASK-21prices

For that price you could come close to buying a Phoenix Motorglider.

Had a chance to check one out last Sept at Tehachapi. Unfortunately
it veered off the runway while taxiing and sheared the main left wheel
clean off at the ankle before I saw it fly. Interestingly, the wing
never touched the ground despite being low mounted and resting at such
an incline due to the polyhedral. Nice looking plane though...

-Paul

On Oct 21, 3:45*pm, bildan wrote:
On Oct 21, 2:00*pm, Mike the Strike wrote:





On Oct 21, 10:32*am, "kirk.stant" wrote:

I'm trying to build the case for my club to add a new (or mildly used)
K-21 to our fleet. *Anyone have info on current prices? *This would be
for delivery in the US (Right Coast)?

Feel free to email me directly if desired.

kirk dot stant at gmail dot com

Cheers!

Kirk
66

Eastern Sailplane show it on their website as 64,100 Euro +
instruments, trailer and shipping.

I think you'll be looking at around $125,000.

Mike

For a little perspective, in 1970 a new 2-33 sold for $23,000. *In
inflated 2010 Dollars that would be $127,000.00 using the Consumer
Price Index. *Of course, the ASK-21 is a little better glider.

What was the hourly rental price for 2-33 and L-13 in the Seventies?
Tow prices and instruction? How did that compare to the rental/
instruction in a Cessna 150? I bought a new 1974 Toyota Celica GT, 5-
speed with air conditioning for $4,400.00 in September, 1974.

On Oct 21, 11:57*pm, bildan wrote:


I've flown both and while the PW-6 is a very nice glider, it's not in
the same league as the ASK-21.



"bildan"
would you elaborate a little bit more on your's opinion.
You stated that PW-6 is in the different league than K-21. Why?
Since you flown both of them, I'm sure it will be easy to justified
you conclusion.
Could you share it with us ? Please.
RRK

On Oct 23, 12:53*am, RRK wrote:
On Oct 21, 11:57*pm, bildan wrote:



I've flown both and while the PW-6 is a very nice glider, it's not in
the same league as the ASK-21.

"bildan"
* * * * * * * would you elaborate a little bit more on your's opinion.
You stated that *PW-6 is in the different league than K-21. Why?
Since you flown both of them, *I'm sure it will be easy to justified
you conclusion.
Could you share it with us ? Please.
RRK

It's just my humble opinion. To me the ASK-21 feels more solid, more
rugged. The ASK-21's larger wing seems to hold on to weak lift better
and the controls are better harmonized. The 21's cockpit is bigger.
I love the docile stall behavior.

Thanks to all the replies - both online and direct. Now comes the
hard part - convincing the old guard that it's time to retire the 2-33
and move on.

As far as the suggestion to get a motorglider - not interested. It
may be the perfect plane for some people & clubs, but not for ours.

I've considered the PW-6 and looked at one (did not get to fly it,
unfortunately) and it's an interesting little glider - second on my
list. I confess to a lot of time in K-21s, including giving
commercial acro rides, and really like the way it flies. And it's a
tough ship - far stronger than the Grob 103, IMO.

Again, thanks for the feedback; hopefully at some time in the future
I'll be able to report the purchase of a new glider...

Kirk
66

On Oct 23, 10:54*am, "kirk.stant" wrote:
Thanks to all the replies - both online and direct. *Now comes the
hard part - convincing the old guard that it's time to retire the 2-33
and move on.

As far as the suggestion to get a motorglider - not interested. *It
may be the perfect plane for some people & clubs, but not for ours.

I've considered the PW-6 and looked at one (did not get to fly it,
unfortunately) and it's an interesting little glider - second on my
list. *I confess to a lot of time in K-21s, including giving
commercial acro rides, and really like the way it flies. *And it's a
tough ship - far stronger than the Grob 103, IMO.

Again, thanks for the feedback; hopefully at some time in the future
I'll be able to report the purchase of a new glider...

Kirk
66

Last point. Often on ras people say that the 21 is a bad trainer
because it can't stall or spin properly. The answer is, get the spin
weights. I took ours out last weekend for spinning. (When giving a
BFR, do something fun for the instructor!) With the spin weights on,
it stalls and spins beautifully. With the spin weights off, the solo
student is much less likely to get in trouble. The spin weights hang
out in the breeze where you can't possibly fail to notice them.

John Cochrane

On Oct 22, 11:53*pm, RRK wrote:
On Oct 21, 11:57*pm, bildan wrote:



I've flown both and while the PW-6 is a very nice glider, it's not in
the same league as the ASK-21.

"bildan"
* * * * * * * would you elaborate a little bit more on your's opinion.
You stated that *PW-6 is in the different league than K-21. Why?
Since you flown both of them, *I'm sure it will be easy to justified
you conclusion.
Could you share it with us ? Please.
RRK

Two important (and somewhat related) factors to consider when making
such a large investment are factory support and resale value. I have
much more confidence that Schleicher will be around in 10 years than
whoever is currently building PW5/PW6 as it seems this has changed on
a semi-annual or so basis over the past 10 years. Such confidence
will tend to keep resale values high.

KJC

On Oct 23, 9:54*am, "kirk.stant" wrote:
Thanks to all the replies - both online and direct. *Now comes the
hard part - convincing the old guard that it's time to retire the 2-33
and move on.

It's really inevitable. Whether it's an onerous AD or just members
moving to clubs with better gliders, the 2-33's days are numbered.
The trick is not to be the guys holding the bag when the 2-33 is
grounded like the unfortunate L-13 owners. One ding or bit of
corrosion in an unobtanium wing strut grounds a 2-33 - probably
forever.

The smart folks are moving on.

But, but, but, you could have a bakers dozen 2-33s for the price of
one ASK-21. Someone had to say it first. Good luck getting a club
caught up to the present.

On Oct 23, 11:41*am, "
wrote:
But, but, but, you could have a bakers dozen 2-33s for the price of
one ASK-21. *Someone had to say it first. *Good luck getting a club
caught up to the present.

You could also probably build even more primary gliders for the same
money but what's the point.

Some clubs won't move on - they'll just die. I know of a couple of
L-13 clubs which may not survive the grounding of that glider. That's
a cautionary tale - don't get stuck with a grounded glider which has
minimal factory support.

I've been through this before. Back in the late 50's, most US clubs
were flying WW2 training gliders like LK's, TG-3's or Pratt Reads.
Why, clubs asked, should we abandon our $1000 gliders for then hugely
expensive Schweizers? That was a difficult sell particularly since
the WW2 trainers were actually much better gliders with a ~10 point L/
D advantage.

In the end, the old wooden gliders just couldn't be maintained. The
only alternative to the metal Schweizers were still more wooden
gliders like the Ka-7, Kranich's or Bergfalke's from Germany. Given a
US industrial base skilled in metal, Schweizer was the only game in
town.

Today, we have a wide choice of excellent trainers which are
relatively speaking, no more expensive than Schweizers were then.
Suck it up and write the check.