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Tibet: was Bush 'Plans Iran Air Strike by August'
"JJS" wrote in message . .. In article , wrote: -stuff snipped- That's very acceptable to China for the DL remains outside China and it doesn't cost China a single penny to keep the DL out. You guys are being manipulated by the DL and you didn't recognize it. Really. I'm being manipulated? Then perhaps you can tell me what my position is concerning the Dalai Lama? Joe I was just passing by, and have no horse in this race, but I do have an interesting story. Years ago I was in the far east, and met a learned person, (probably in an airport bar, so take everything I next say with a dose of salt) and the subject got around to Tibet. He said that most people do not know that Tibet was once a feudal serfdom, and had some practices that were very close to slavery. The selection of the next Dalai Lama was done by having the monks (lamas?) scour the countryside for the best and the brightest amongst young males and then, with the agreement of the parents, they would be taken back to Lhasa? and trained and examined, and the best and the brightest would be the next Dalai Lama in waiting, and the others were on standby. But the thing is that none of them went back. They were essentially indentured servants. I don't remember everything, but he stated that this is probably why there is no real revolution amongst the Tibetan people, because they (maybe?) do not want the Dalai Lama system back. Of course the Chinese government could be pounding them into the ground, but with today's communication, and travelers, one thinks that one should hear something. As an aside, we have a friend who supports that brand of Buddhism, and so I did meet with some saffron-robed Buddhist (priests?) who were from the Dalai Lama's sect. They did a sand mandela (which is something to see) and sang songs, and we saw slides of their monastery (which is now in India, and looked very Spartan, indeed) and I thought that they were probably good people, but they were definitely of a single culture - once in , never out. Maybe it is the same as a monk in the Catholic church, but I don't know. I know that my wife spent a hundred dollars for some blankets. Maybe someone will be helped. Anyway, I do not know if his story is true, or not, but it was interesting. I don't care, one way or the other. |
#123
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Bush 'Plans Iran Air Strike by August'
John Boyle wrote:
Snipped to save electrons... To ALL: You people are nuts to think another war, at this Time and with the condition of out military without the draft, makes any sense! We do NOT have the manpower to handle the alleged war, and without manpower you can NOT do what is necessary! I am a Retired Army Sergeant with 21 yrs of service and One year in Vietnam, with a Bronze star to boot! With all due respect, most wars do not make sense. Dean |
#124
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Bush 'Plans Iran Air Strike by August'
On Jun 2, 4:30*am, Vince Brannigan wrote:
g lof2 wrote: On Jun 1, 8:02 am, "Jeffrey Hamilton" wrote: "PaPaPeng" wrote in message . .. On Sat, 31 May 2008 09:20:54 -0700, tankfixer wrote: In article , says... On Fri, 30 May 2008 21:50:00 -0700, tankfixer wrote: YOu need to read the BS coming out of China now as they try to spin the damage in the earthquake areas -- If only Dubya could claim the same degree of disrepute after Katrina he'd be grinning from ear to ear. Glad you can admit the Chinese people are unhappy with how their government is acting. That is a good first step. You really need to take remedial reading lessons. You need to take reality lessons. They [CNN] reported on and showed *parents* who had lost their only child in the recent earthquakes. These people spoke of their children being told not to *jump* in the classrooms, by their teachers. Evidently the teachers felt the schools were of sub-standard construction and were not capable of sustaining the forces of excited children jumping up and down. The gist of the story was *the schools* fell down when other buildings remained standing. Corruption rules! *Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sorry to disappoint you Jeff, but the shear number of build, not just school, but apartment blocks and factories that colapsed * points to incompents, not Corruption as the problem. it proves no such thing * As I told Vince, the promble with codes and standards are that people assume that the people creating them know what they are doing, and that build to those standard is safe enough. But codes are rarely customize to specify areas until after a disaster points out the shortcoming. (Have you ever notices that the strictes firecode in the US is in Chicago.) Therefore until the quake hit, the people build the school may have truly thought they were building safe buildings. you can easily have corruption at the "code making" level Now I am not saying they might have been cases of corruption in China's construction industries, but I doubt it was so great to cause the amount of destruct seen hera. It can if the corruption was at the code level. Both kinds of corruption are common Maybe, but never underestimate the power of human stupidity, far more people have die due to honest mistakes, than deliberated misfeasance. I take a crook that skates close too the edge over the honest man who will drive you over out of ignorances. I just wrote an ethics letter on the private funding of code officials participation in the US code making process We will have a whole conference on codes and some of these issues in Edinburgh this fall True corruption, or will it inculde 'conflicts of interest'? One real issue we had decussed when I was doing my Masters (Yes I have a MsME) was when does avoiding 'conflict of interest' begin to hurt other. One example was one of my profressor was a expert in solar archieture, and his research was back by some companies interested in windows and insulation. His expertises would be invaluable to revising the building codes about insulation requirment, but they never asked his because of his sponcers. - Show quoted text - |
#125
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Bush 'Plans Iran Air Strike by August'
"PaPaPeng" wrote in message ... On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 10:52:04 -0400, "Jeffrey Hamilton" wrote: Listen "Who Flung Poo", we are talking about murderously criminal building practices in _Communist China_! Do try to keep on track. Aw quit your carping and dry your crocodile tears. Do something useful. Gee *OneHungLow*, pointing out reality to you is carping? Fascinating. I am doing something useful. cheers....Jeff |
#126
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Bush 'Plans Iran Air Strike by August'
"PaPaPeng" wrote in message ... On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 10:52:04 -0400, "Jeffrey Hamilton" wrote: If the Chinese people are really lucky, one day they will be able to watch the likes of CNN and decide for themselves whether or not they find the reporting to their taste. They watch CNN alright. Jack Cafferty found that out the last time he made a slur and had to apologize. However, to really influence the mass of oppressed Chinese CNN and other western media will have to broadcast in Chinese. There's a 1.3 billion x 2 eyeballs there to catch. Its a worthwhile investment to mess up their minds. I understand perfectly *WhoFlungDung*, freedom of the press is your greatest fear. It will eventually erode the communist's hold on the Chinese people. It can't happen soon enough. cheers....Jeff |
#127
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Bush 'Plans Iran Air Strike by August'
On Jun 6, 11:24*pm, "Jeffrey Hamilton" wrote:
"PaPaPeng" wrote in message ... On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 10:52:04 -0400, "Jeffrey Hamilton" wrote: If the Chinese people are really lucky, one day they will be able to watch the likes of CNN and decide for themselves whether or not they find the reporting to their taste. They watch CNN alright. *Jack Cafferty found that out the last time he made a slur and had to apologize. *However, to really influence the mass of oppressed Chinese CNN and other western media will have to broadcast in Chinese. *There's a 1.3 billion x 2 eyeballs there to catch. *Its a worthwhile investment to mess up their minds. I understand perfectly *WhoFlungDung*, freedom of the press is your greatest fear. It will eventually erode the communist's hold on the Chinese people. It can't happen soon enough. *cheers....Jeff You are too ideological, as long as the Communists do a reasonable good job, its hold on power, Chinese people, whatever, will be just fine. You may not know that it's much more likely for a Chinese to be pro-government and anti-West after he/she is exposed to freedom of expression. |
#128
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Bush 'Plans Iran Air Strike by August'
"PaPaPeng" wrote in message ... On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 11:00:43 -0400, "Jeffrey Hamilton" wrote: "PaPaPeng" wrote in message . .. On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 14:34:50 -0700 (PDT), eyeball wrote: You're welcome. There are at least ten thousand times their numbers in the mainland who are as smart if not smarter. We can spare as many as you are willing to take. Employment opportunities are scarce in China even for top brains. I'll remember that when you are the one with the immigration problem... Too late. I have already been embedded for over 30 years. Wrong, as usual, Ernst Zundel was embedded for over 30 years too! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Z%C3%BCndel Guess where he is now? As a Chinese communist shill, you undoubtedly lied on your Canadian immigration form's, all those years ago. Consider yourself a "marked man", WhoFlungPoo. cheers.....Jeff Aha. Zundel lied to get his immigration approved plus he published and publicized his hatred for an identifiable ethnic group. They got him on that. Of course having a Canadian Jewish Mafia helps a lot too. Yes it does, but it still took way too long to deport the Nazi *******. Me? I am having an excellent time messing you up without even trying. What ever gave you the impression _you_are messing with me? And shame on you. You don't even know your own laws. Don't I indeed? Making empty threats lowers your credibility in polite circles. I made no threats, I merely made an observation. In the 1970's Canada took in 50,000 + *boat people*. These people were of course fleeing the communist's in Vietnam. The greater proportion of them were ethnic Chinese. I figure you came to Canada during this process, you *OneHungLow*, in all likely hood were *planted*, possibly in a refugee camp. I'd bet good money _your_communist leanings, were never acknowledged to Canadian immigration authorities. Are you a candidate for deportation ? Who knows. Are you as stupid in real-life as you are on USENET ? A bit of *fear factor* there, *WhoFlungPoo* ? cheers....Jeff |
#129
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Tibet: was Bush 'Plans Iran Air Strike by August'
On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 17:27:31 -0700, "Billzz"
wrote: "JJS" wrote in message . .. In article , wrote: -stuff snipped- That's very acceptable to China for the DL remains outside China and it doesn't cost China a single penny to keep the DL out. You guys are being manipulated by the DL and you didn't recognize it. Really. I'm being manipulated? Then perhaps you can tell me what my position is concerning the Dalai Lama? Joe I was just passing by, and have no horse in this race, but I do have an interesting story. Years ago I was in the far east, and met a learned person, (probably in an airport bar, so take everything I next say with a dose of salt) and the subject got around to Tibet. He said that most people do not know that Tibet was once a feudal serfdom, and had some practices that were very close to slavery. The selection of the next Dalai Lama was done by having the monks (lamas?) scour the countryside for the best and the brightest amongst young males and then, with the agreement of the parents, they would be taken back to Lhasa? and trained and examined, and the best and the brightest would be the next Dalai Lama in waiting, and the others were on standby. But the thing is that none of them went back. They were essentially indentured servants. I don't remember everything, but he stated that this is probably why there is no real revolution amongst the Tibetan people, because they (maybe?) do not want the Dalai Lama system back. Of course the Chinese government could be pounding them into the ground, but with today's communication, and travelers, one thinks that one should hear something. As an aside, we have a friend who supports that brand of Buddhism, and so I did meet with some saffron-robed Buddhist (priests?) who were from the Dalai Lama's sect. They did a sand mandela (which is something to see) and sang songs, and we saw slides of their monastery (which is now in India, and looked very Spartan, indeed) and I thought that they were probably good people, but they were definitely of a single culture - once in , never out. Maybe it is the same as a monk in the Catholic church, but I don't know. I know that my wife spent a hundred dollars for some blankets. Maybe someone will be helped. Anyway, I do not know if his story is true, or not, but it was interesting. I don't care, one way or the other. I guess by now you would have noticed that no one really cares about the Tibetans unless they can be used to bash China. Here's a report that isn't so flattering either. Stop religious persecution http://www.westernshugdensociety.org/ Every day, thousands and thousands of people around the world quietly practice the prayer of Dorje Shugden. This centuries-old practice involves making requests to the Wisdom Deity Dorje Shugden to support our spiritual development - helping us to develop pure inner qualities such as love, compassion, equanimity, wisdom, and patience. Our goal in making these prayers is to ask for the best conditions to follow the Buddhist path to full enlightenment, so that we can help all living beings find lasting inner peace and happiness. Abandoned by the Dalai Lama For reasons that have their roots in the arcane world of Tibetan politics, some years ago the Dalai Lama of Tibet chose to abandon the practice and outlaw it among the Tibetan community, claiming that this Deity was 'evil' and that engaging in the practice caused harm to his own lifespan and to Tibetan independence. On the orders of the Dalai Lama, the ban was and continues to be enforced by the Tibetan Government in Exile and all other Tibetan Exile associations such as the Tibetan Youth Congress and the Tibetan Women's Association: " Monks and nuns are forbidden to do the practice and are unconstitutionally expelled from their monasteries and nunneries if they do not comply " Thousands of Shugden practitioners among the Tibetan lay people are being forced to abandon the practice or lose the support of their government and face orchestrated public humiliation and intimidation " People who refuse to renounce the practice are losing their jobs, their children are being expelled from schools, and their travel papers, which require prior authorization from the Tibetan Government in Exile, are not being endorsed " Statues have been smashed, temples destroyed, books burned, practitioner's houses attacked, and even death threats issued in an orgy of persecution that resembles a medieval witch hunt Persecution intensifies This persecution has become progressively more virulent, and in January 2008, the Dalai Lama issued a new proclamation requiring all Tibetans to sign a declaration forsaking the practice forever and promising not to associate in any way - spiritually, financially, socially or materially - with anyone who does not sign. Despite the atmosphere of fear and intimidation and the threat to their own safety and that of their families, thousands of monks and nuns decided that enough was enough and refused to sign. They were summarily expelled from their monasteries and nunneries, forbidden to associate with other Tibetans, even to eat with or shop from them, and left to fend for themselves without any support. Untouchables Although the Tibetans are mere guests in India, the Dalai Lama is repaying the kindness of the Indian people by violating their constitution in creating a new group of untouchables. And these from among his own people! Having deprived Tibetans in exile of the right to become Indian citizens and insisted that they all remain subject to his dictatorial rule, he has effectively condemned those who refuse to compromise the integrity of their spiritual practice to a double refugee status. They are refugees from Tibet - stateless in India - and now they are refugees from their own communities - ostracized and humiliated on the fringes of Tibetan society. Inexpressible pain and suffering And why? Simply because they refuse to abandon a pure and harmless spiritual practice they have received from their Spiritual Guides. This tradition goes back centuries. Many of the great Masters of Tibetan Buddhism received this practice from their Spiritual Guide and passed it onto their own students - right down to the great Lama, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, who passed it to his disciple, the Dalai Lama! In abandoning the practice, the Dalai Lama has broken a commitment to his Spiritual Guide - almost unthinkable in Buddhism among ordinary practitioners, never mind from a spiritual leader! It is almost impossible to explain the inner pain and suffering a Buddhist would experience if they were forced to abandon a heart practice given to them by their Spiritual Guide. And yet thousands and thousands of Tibetans have been forced to do just this by the Dalai Lama! Stolen teachings The Dalai Lama has even gone on record as saying his own Spiritual Guide and his predecessors through the centuries were wrong! What a preposterous claim! Is this the example we are being asked to follow? In a stunning and flagrant act of almost unbelievable hypocrisy, on the one hand he condemns his own Spiritual Guides and works to destroy the very heart of the pure tradition they have preserved through the centuries, while on the other he struts the world's stage giving teachings from that very tradition! Because the pure Dharma he received from his Teacher Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche is so powerful, everyone who hears those teachings naturally admires the sentiments they express. But do they know that he has stolen those teachings? Do they question whether these noble sentiments are actually present in the mind of the speaker? Duplicity But the hypocrisy and duplicity do not stop there. Aware of the international public horror at the recent atrocities, which clearly stem from the single handed actions of the Dalai Lama, the Tibetan Prime Minister and other Officials of the Tibetan Government in Exile have started a campaign to distance the Dalai Lama from these actions and their resulting inhumane victimization of a section of the Tibetan community. Threat to religious freedom worldwide Like a virulent cancer, this discrimination has spread from the Tibetan community to the world at large. Because the Dalai Lama generally enjoys uncritical celebrity status in almost every country, people simply accept what he says without question As a result, various western Buddhist centres with a connection to the Dalai Lama are now signing declarations promising not to engage in the Shugden practice or to allow into their centre anyone who does. They are also insulting those practitioners and centres in the west who do engage in this practice. Such is the spell cast by the Dalai Lama that these people have suspended their critical faculties to embrace what is nothing more than a piece of medieval superstition. Incredibly, Shugden practitioners in the West are now wrongly being condemned as non-Buddhists! Why We Are Protesting Over the years Shugden practitioners in both the East and the West have sent many letters and petitions to the Dalai Lama requesting him to completely stop these actions of discrimination, but, giving invalid reasons, he has refused to accept our requests. We are left with no option but to protest publicly in the hope of drawing the world's attention to this intolerable situation. In doing so we hope that some people at least will see the hypocrisy in the Dalai Lama parading as a champion of religious freedom while conducting religious persecution of his own, and join with us in demanding that this iniquitous discrimination that is causing so much pain and suffering stop immediately. All we ask is to be able to say our prayers and follow the advice of our Spiritual Guides without fear of persecution, ostracism, and abuse. Why is it so hard for a Buddhist leader to agree to this? |
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Bush 'Plans Iran Air Strike by August'
On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 16:08:31 -0700, (JJS)
wrote: So we are back to the "white man's burden" excuse again. Look we both know that it doesn't matter what the life style of Tibet is. This is all about power so why keep bringing up how good this is for Tibet when is has nothing to do with helping Tibet. Well I guess you could say that the Chinese are 'helping' themselves to the resources of Tibet. Geezee how many times did you have to repeat a grade before you got your 3Rs right? Beijing already has all the power. She doesn't need to prove anything to anyone least of all to people like you. Beijing has a National Policy for Minorities of which Tibetans form a group that receives the most attention. Belonging to a Chinese minority group brings useful privileges such as being allowed to have more children and these children have preferential admission to institutions of higher learning, the passport to the good life. As such quite a number of identifiable community groups seek Minority status. http://www.everyculture.com/Russia-E...-Policies.html I made no claim that Beijing's Tibet policy is good for the Tibetans. What Beijing does is pragmatism. Its a damn lot chaper and easier to pay displaced Tibetans to get by than it is to try to force feed them ill thought out "Tibet" solutions. Your experience in the west had seen many multi-million dollar welfare type attempts go to waste. All those failures do is to reinforce the target group's sense of failure and the futility of their lives. The smarter ones develop a penchant to game the system for whatever dollars they can get before another do-good project goes south. Your responses so far is to patronize the Tibetans by saying that all their problems can be solved if only Beijing cared. In the same breath you contradict yourself "if only Beijing would leave them alone to work out something at their own pace and time" Tibetans will achieve nirvana. You really have some personal issues to resolve first. That New Town resettlement for Tibetans displaced by climate change actually tells many stories. There are no laws that keep them there. There are no restrictions as to what work they can engage in. There are no laws to say they cannot go back to their old style of life (or a new style if they chose to do so) anywhere in Tibet or elsewhere in China. Yet they stay and they remain bored out of their frigging minds. The incontrovertible fact then is there is nowhere in the whole vast country of China that they can they recreate their former lives. The world has changed and its not the Government's fault. Therefore all this talk about preserving their culture won't bring back their former lives. The best and perhaps only way they can practice it is in the form of festivals. For their everyday lives they must adapt to realities, and that is to find some form of work they can do. What this form will take is something neither you nor I have a clue on since neither of us have been to Tibet let alone what their hopes and capabilities are. You have neither the intellectual nor the moral authority to speak for them. ================================ Chinese Policy on Minorities http://www.paulnoll.com/China/Minori...in-policy.html General These fifty-six are extremely diverse. Some of the minorities, including the Hui and the Zhuang, are very similar to the Han; others are very different, for instance, the Turkic peoples of the west such as the Uygurs or Kazakhs, or the Iranian Tajiks. The Minority nationalities occupy about 60 per cent of China's territory, including, above all, the vast western areas. Policy Chinese policy officially opposes forced assimilation and allows autonomy to the minority nationalities, so that they can retain their own characteristics. Under this policy, the government has set up numerous autonomous areas throughout China. The policy's real effect, however, can best be described as integration. Policy on Secession Both policy and reality are fiercely opposed to outright secession, which the government has suppressed brutally on several occasions. Such occasions occurred in the years of 1959, 1987, and 1989. Most of the minorities have succeeded in integrating reasonably well with the Han, but independence or secessionist and wishes have remained strong among a few, particularly the Tibetans. Ethnic dissent among some nationalities could easily develop as an issue in the coming years. Census Situation In the 1953 census 41 minority nationalities were specified. In the 1964 census, there were 183 nationalities registered, among which the government recognized only 54. Of the remaining 129 nationalities, 74 were considered to be part of the officially recognized 54, 23 were classified as "other nationalities" and the remaining 32 were classified as "indeterminate." The numbers of population has some suspect due to the re-registration of significant numbers of Han people as members of minority nationalities, an action which brought with it personal benefits. Also some did so as it relates to the substantial (though not total) exemption of members of minority nationalities from the family planning policy of "one family one child". |
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