Relieving in flight

As a flight instructor with several young female students (Yeah! Some more women in soaring maybe!) I'd be a lot more interested in hearing any women pilots address this, because I think the problem for guys is simpler and better understood.

I fly a Discus B, and my solution for it is really simple: I carry an empty plastic Snapple ice-tea bottle, with cap. There's room between the control stick and me, angles work OK.

This doesn't work for me in every glider -- in particular it sure doesn't work in a friend's DG-101 with the parallel stick mechanism that leaves no room to my crotch.

I don't often get close to its usable capacity (which is about half the bottle volume) but the solution for that is either the foresight to carry a second bottle, or with some caution I have learned how to put it out the side vent and get enough fore-arm out so that I can stick the bottle far enough down so that the urine will go cleanly underneath the wing -- I acknowledge that this maneuver is tricky, and needs some practice (perhaps with clean water) before it is reliable, and may not work for everybody in every glider.

If you want to try this maneuver here's the method:

1. speed up to about 60 - 70 . (Slower than this is likely to have urine hitting the wing ... faster may generate enough turbulence in the bottle to extract droplets before you want to.)

I need to release my left shoulder strap to proceed:

2. stick the bottle out through the vent-window open mouth first and angled well forward and up about 60 degrees.

3. Lean so you can get your elbow close to the vent -- that you can do this is easy to test on the ground; if you can't do this, this dump technique won't work cleanly for you.

4. move your hand down as far as you can (so the urine will go under the wing), twist your wrist to point the mouth outboard and then down -- voila .... it's gone.

If the speed and technique are right nothing comes out until you want it to, and it doesn't hit you or the wing.

On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 7:01:55 PM UTC+3, wrote:
As a flight instructor with several young female students (Yeah! Some more women in soaring maybe!) I'd be a lot more interested in hearing any women pilots address this, because I think the problem for guys is simpler and better understood.

There are any number of devices on the market for female athletes, hikers etc etc

https://menstrualcupreviews.net/best...nnels-reviews/

I don't know how hard it is to get a good seal.

I fly a Discus B, and my solution for it is really simple: I carry an empty plastic Snapple ice-tea bottle, with cap. There's room between the control stick and me, angles work OK.

This doesn't work for me in every glider -- in particular it sure doesn't work in a friend's DG-101 with the parallel stick mechanism that leaves no room to my crotch.

Whether this works is also heavily dependent on whether you're a "grow-er" or a "show-er". We grow-ers have a more difficult job, assuming we're not all that excited at the time.

My solution: External catheter. Use a little bit of talcum powder on the .... sensitive area.. first, so it comes off more easily. Connect to last year's camelback bladder, which goes down near your legs. This has two liters of capacity, way more than hospital urine bags. It's hands off, it's simple, no littering the countryside or bags caught on the leading edge, no pee - rust damage on the glider.

John Cochrane

On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 10:35:13 AM UTC-6, John Cochrane wrote:
My solution: External catheter. Use a little bit of talcum powder on the .... sensitive area.. first, so it comes off more easily. Connect to last year's camelback bladder, which goes down near your legs. This has two liters of capacity, way more than hospital urine bags. It's hands off, it's simple, no littering the countryside or bags caught on the leading edge, no pee - rust damage on the glider.

John Cochrane

Pee'd into uninary leg bags for a long time, now over-board line ending at the edge of a gear door (you see me lowering my gear, better run). Had to empty a very full cold leg bag through the window at Parowan at altitude once. The pee froze immediately against the outside of the canopy, not pretty.
Herb

On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 12:45:42 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 10:35:13 AM UTC-6, John Cochrane wrote:
My solution: External catheter. Use a little bit of talcum powder on the ... sensitive area.. first, so it comes off more easily. Connect to last year's camelback bladder, which goes down near your legs. This has two liters of capacity, way more than hospital urine bags. It's hands off, it's simple, no littering the countryside or bags caught on the leading edge, no pee - rust damage on the glider.

John Cochrane

Pee'd into uninary leg bags for a long time, now over-board line ending at the edge of a gear door (you see me lowering my gear, better run). Had to empty a very full cold leg bag through the window at Parowan at altitude once. The pee froze immediately against the outside of the canopy, not pretty.
Herb

Location of the dump point at the aft end of the gear door seems like it should work well.
It has 3 important shortcomings.
1- Urine does get into the landing gear box and rudder hinge area with this method. Anybody who has worked on gliders much has seen rusted landing gear parts as a result of this. I had to cut the rudder horn fairing off one glider to get at the lower hinge bolt due to rust.
2- Freezing. The long length and path can lead to freezing, especially at low points.
3- Cleaning. It is hard to clean out well.
The probe out the belly solution avoids these issues.
Another opinion.
UH

On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 11:12:56 AM UTC-5, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 7:01:55 PM UTC+3, wrote:
As a flight instructor with several young female students (Yeah! Some more women in soaring maybe!) I'd be a lot more interested in hearing any women pilots address this, because I think the problem for guys is simpler and better understood.

There are any number of devices on the market for female athletes, hikers etc etc

Williams Soaring has a system on their website at https://www.williamssoaring.com/cata...-supplies.html ; about a third of the way down the page - 'female relief systems'.

I still use quart sized zip lock baggies. If you catch the urge early enough, there is time to pee and NOT fill the bag. Long flights, most of us should pee a few times, more if it gets cold (read up on cold weather dehydration......).
Part clue is, zip the used bag about 90% closed, thus it empties on the way down. Don't need close to a quart of liquid at terminal velocity hitting the ground or anything else.
I like to try and "go" when up on a street, trim to about 60MPH, then hands off the stick while "taking care of business". If I'm doing a ridge run, pee before getting on tree tops, maybe during a gap jump when it's smoother.
I remember a "well known" pilot saying he used to put a finished apple core in the baggies before filling......sorta interesting.

If I get back to more flying long flights, I shall look at an external catheter, most comp ships I fly have a system in place for that.

Note, if you keep bags in the ship, "air test" them for leaks before filling. Stuff in the little side pockets can wear/punch a hole in the bag. Sucks to find a leaking bag due to liquid leaks......
A small hand towel is also nice to clean any spills.

Women pilots....sheesh, adult diapers are likely the easiest because of their "plumbing" and most glass seating positions.

A small hand towel is also nice to clean any spills.

Women pilots....sheesh, adult diapers are likely the easiest because of their "plumbing" and most glass seating positions.

Right.
But that isn't the whole story.

I always laughed when relief continued to be mentioned "every" weekend over almost 20 years. Dealing with new students and new owners, all the options were discussed. Repetitively. I always started by saying - it must be addressed if you want to be a more than 2 hours aloft pilot, cross-country or not. As a physiologic issue, it becomes a safety issue if 'ignored'.

On one of my early planned max-flight time straight outs, I proved that TWO diaper layers were not enough. I was happy to have a change of lower halfs on board. Since my landing was on an airfield seven and a half hours later, it was simple to clean up in the restroom and use fresh clothes.

I had tried the Willliams option of a soft funnel to an external bag and could not make it comfortable in a singleseater. Others might find it okay, depending on cockpit layout (trim location handles, stick boots, seat pan depth), chute straps and belts, and torso lengths.

Finally, when I began doing some long-duration wave flights (23 hours airborne in 36 hours), I found that self catheterization to a leg bag pair of 4 liters capacity was the right combination. I entered the cockpit with hose and shutoff down the interior of my pantsleg. Hookup to bags happened before seatbelts on and cockpit closed. For flights at multi-hours in Flight levels... the bags often froze, but not the leg lines. Towel for disconnect kept the glider clean.

Considering the additional inconvenience of having to have prescriptions for the equipment, per-flight expense,the discomfort, the potential for infection/etc. - I don't have much sympathy for worries of trimming hair, adhesive removal or failure of glue joints. You folks with hoses have it significantly easier.

If a gal wants to talk with me about it all, send her to me.

Cindy B

Thank you from a female perspective. I only know a few females that do longer flights, Doris Grove, my mother and a few female juniors from HHSC and Valley Soaring, I know there are others, I just don't know them. I never really had good options for any of them, the "adult diapers" was my only suggestion, sorta based on the glider. Sitting sorta upright can be a challenge (2-33 or 1-26), glass can be a real PITA, even for guys.

Lots of complicates solutions... I just use biodegradeble bags, one inside another, and toss them out of the window. No problems since 20+ years, even while flying a ridge.