THE DAY THE 344TH STOPPED PATTON

Two days actually and he was nowhere near the camps. Now tell us what you
did
in the great war sniveling coward

For ten days actually, you forgot that I know someone who was there.

The 344th made a very costly mistake, in lives.


Tarver, knowing someone who was there doesn't back up your claim. Being there,
as Kramer was, makes his assertion it was 2 days more plausible.

Personally I have no idea when, where etc, but such incidents did happen. There
were innocent people killed when dumping bombs on more than one occassion.
There was a town in France that got tagged that way if memory serves. I don't
recall the specifics.

These things happen, but was the outcome of the war altered? Were any Allies
killed when the bombs were punched?

I won't say your military experience is meaningless, but you can listen to our
war stories all day long and you will never be able to grasp the horror and
fear we felt anymore than I as a male will ever understand the pain of
childbirth. I can tell you what it's like to hunker down in a hole while the
bad guys walked fire over me. Can you feel what I felt? Can you comprehend the
feeling of helplessness I had? Can you feel the rage I built up wanting to get
back at them? Of course not.

How about granting those who were there the benefit of the doubt rather than
arguing for argument's sake?


Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

Subject: THE DAY THE 344TH STOPPED PATTON
From: (B2431)
Date: 9/7/03 2:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


Two days actually and he was nowhere near the camps. Now tell us what you
did
in the great war sniveling coward

For ten days actually, you forgot that I know someone who was there.

The 344th made a very costly mistake, in lives.


Tarver, knowing someone who was there doesn't back up your claim. Being
there,
as Kramer was, makes his assertion it was 2 days more plausible.

Personally I have no idea when, where etc, but such incidents did happen.
There
were innocent people killed when dumping bombs on more than one occassion.
There was a town in France that got tagged that way if memory serves. I don't
recall the specifics.

These things happen, but was the outcome of the war altered? Were any Allies
killed when the bombs were punched?

I won't say your military experience is meaningless, but you can listen to
our
war stories all day long and you will never be able to grasp the horror and
fear we felt anymore than I as a male will ever understand the pain of
childbirth. I can tell you what it's like to hunker down in a hole while the
bad guys walked fire over me. Can you feel what I felt? Can you comprehend
the
feeling of helplessness I had? Can you feel the rage I built up wanting to
get
back at them? Of course not.

How about granting those who were there the benefit of the doubt rather than
arguing for argument's sake?


Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired


Tarver could have volunteered for combat as his brave father did with the 101st
Airborne, But he never did, Instead he hid in a hanger out of harms way and has
at one time or another attacked every combat veteran on this NG. Probably out
of guilt at his own cowardice and shame at his own jealousy. He is generally
the laughing stock of this NG, as well he should be. And I am sure his father
takes no joy in his cowardly son. But those of us who have seen the elephant
know the truth of battle.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

On 07 Sep 2003 03:07:32 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote in
Message-Id: :

He dumped his bomb load to lighten the plane.

That's what may have downed Glen Miller's aircraft too.

http://www.grimsociety.com/wayback/decwb.html
December 15th, 1944 - GLENN MILLER: MIA - Big Band Leader Glen
Miller's plane disappeared over the English Channel. In 1988 a retired
RAF engineer admitted he may have jettisoned some leftover bombs on
top of the entertainer's plane while returning home from a bombing
run.


http://www.netlondon.com/news/2000-7...536650802.html
--

Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts.
-- Larry Dighera,

(B2431) wrote:



These things happen, but was the outcome of the war altered? Were any Allies
killed when the bombs were punched?

-cut-
Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

A question occured to me during this discussion of Patton being
stopped because of all the damage caused by a bomb-load being
jettisoned, bridges blown up, roads obliterated etc.

Weren't bombs dropped 'on safe' during jettison?...I know for a
fact that modern bombers can choose whether to arm (or not) their
ordnance, so why did that jettison cause so much damage?...

Mind you, I'm not looking to add fuel to this flame-war but I'm
curious.
--

-Gord.

"B2431" wrote in message
...

Two days actually and he was nowhere near the camps. Now tell us what
you
did
in the great war sniveling coward

For ten days actually, you forgot that I know someone who was there.

The 344th made a very costly mistake, in lives.


Tarver, knowing someone who was there doesn't back up your claim. Being
there,
as Kramer was, makes his assertion it was 2 days more plausible.

Art wasn't there, but my father was.

Subject: THE DAY THE 344TH STOPPED PATTON
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 9/7/03 9:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


"B2431" wrote in message
...

Two days actually and he was nowhere near the camps. Now tell us what
you
did
in the great war sniveling coward

For ten days actually, you forgot that I know someone who was there.

The 344th made a very costly mistake, in lives.


Tarver, knowing someone who was there doesn't back up your claim. Being
there,
as Kramer was, makes his assertion it was 2 days more plausible.

Art wasn't there, but my father was.


Your father flew with the 344th, What a liar.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: THE DAY THE 344TH STOPPED PATTON
From: Dave Holford
Date: 9/7/03 7:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:



ArtKramr wrote:


did YOU do in the war? Robbie flew 55
missions.
How many did you fly?

I see your point Art, those lives were just ordinary lives, not air crew.

He did 55. How many did you fly?

Arthur Kramer


I find it reprehensible that Art can dismiss the efforts and lives of
men who spent more weeks in combat than he did hours, just because they
did not wear wings, with thoughtless smart-arse comments.

You are buying Tarver's lies hook line and sinker. Idiot

No one doubts that his time in combat was stressful and terrifying, and
may even have had some impact on the outcome of the European war; but he
did get to eat decent meals, at a table in comfort, and to sleep in a
safe bed every night.

Not just me,Me and a million other guys. How about you?

His recollections of history are interesting contributions, but his
off-hand dismissal of everyone who was not in air combat is becoming
tiresome.

I am waiting for you to tell more interesting combat experiences. Start now.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: THE DAY THE 344TH STOPPED PATTON
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 9/7/03 9:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


"B2431" wrote in message
...

Two days actually and he was nowhere near the camps. Now tell us
what
you
did
in the great war sniveling coward

For ten days actually, you forgot that I know someone who was there.

The 344th made a very costly mistake, in lives.


Tarver, knowing someone who was there doesn't back up your claim. Being
there,
as Kramer was, makes his assertion it was 2 days more plausible.

Art wasn't there, but my father was.


Your father flew with the 344th, What a liar.

My father was on the ground waiting 10 days.

Your buddy Robbie did more damage to the war effort in his childishness that
his 55 missions did to help. It would have been better if Robbie had stayed
home.

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: THE DAY THE 344TH STOPPED PATTON
From: Dave Holford

snip
His recollections of history are interesting contributions, but his
off-hand dismissal of everyone who was not in air combat is becoming
tiresome.

I am waiting for you to tell more interesting combat experiences. Start
now.

I agree, let's change the subject.

Art, don't post your stopping Patton story anymore. It is dusturbing, not
funny, or entertaining.

Subject: THE DAY THE 344TH STOPPED PATTON
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 9/7/03 10:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time

Your buddy Robbie did more damage to the war effort in his childishness that
his 55 missions did to help. It would have been better if Robbie had stayed
home.

You are babbling about things you know nothing about. Your judgement about
combat has zero credibility since you were never there.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer