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FLARM.....for good, or evil??



 
 
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  #101  
Old October 29th 10, 11:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
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Posts: 2,403
Default FLARM.....for good, or evil??

On Oct 29, 2:53*pm, "vaughn" wrote:
"Mike Schumann" wrote in message

... What evidence do you have that there are plans to turn off TIS-B after 2020?

Some TIS stations are already gone. See this AOPA blurb:http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsite...is.html*Google for more.

Vaughn


Vaughn

Actual this is talking about Mode S TIS (sometimes incorrectly called
TIS-S). Which is not related to ADS-B TIS-B although some of the
concepts are similar. ("concepts" is my favorite work at the
moment...)

Mode S TIS is (or was if your local service has been decommissioned) a
great service used in the USA that uplinks terminal/approach radar
traffic information to a Mode S transponder capable of receiving TIS
data. (Yes Mode S transponders are fancy enough the can receive uplink
data as well as downlink data, but the uplink is not the same as
1090ES data-in).

Mode S TIS transponder advertise to the approach radar that is has TIS
capability then the approach radar TIS processor calculates threats
within an ~8nm radius cylinder +/- 3k' or so (its actually more
complex than that but I'll spare you the pain) around the client
aircraft and uplinks that data to the client transponder (using
relative distance and direction). This requires you are within
coverage of a TIS equipped SSR terminal (not enroute) radar and you
have a Mode S transponder that supports TIS and it is connected to a
compatible display. Enroute radar can't provide TIS for multiple
reasons including the slow scan/update rates, traffic volumes, etc.

The Mode S TIS decommissioning issue was as the FAA upgraded some
terminal SSR systems they did not want to pay to add the TIS support
to those systems, even if the SSR radar they were upgrading had
previously had it. To me this was a very poor decision since Mode S
TIS was encouraging many GA aircraft to equip with traffic displays
and encouraging pilots to use traffic awareness systems - which would
have been a good segway into ADS-B. To rub salt into this the are some
realtively low-cost add-on Mode S TIS processor systems that use
omnidirectional antennas (the Mode S TIS data-uplink does not has to
go though the SSR radar directional antenna) that companies proposed
to the FAA and were turned down on. But in the FAA's defense here is
they are just a funding starved organization trying to do a lot. Maybe
too much, but that is debatable.

Around the places like the San Francisco Bay Area where I live Mode S
TIS still provides very useful traffic information to many GA
aircraft. The other advantage of Mode S TIS is is is relatively a low-
cost feature to add to any Mode S transponder. For example the pretty
standard Garmin GTX 33 and GTX 330 transponders come with it included.
The Trig TT21 that is being used in gliders also comes with Mode S TIS
-- but you need to connect it to display that support the "TIS serial
protocol" -- e.g. something like my Gamin 496 -- and that's the same
whole issue that the UAT and 1090ES receivers not designed for glider
cockpits have with not supporting the Flarm serial dataport protocol
that is widely supported by display products in our cockpits.

Darryl
  #102  
Old October 30th 10, 12:18 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Kevin Christner
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Posts: 211
Default FLARM.....for good, or evil??

On Oct 29, 3:15*pm, Bart wrote:
On Oct 27, 7:45*am, Kevin Christner wrote:

You are confusing cause and effect. *Your CHOICE to take more risk
CAUSES you to wear a parachute. *Your CHOICE to fly in competition
will CAUSE (force) you to use a FLARM. *You made choices independent
of equipment. *The equipment didnt cause you to take more risk.


A parachute strapped to my back may cause me to decide to spin down at
the end of a local soaring flight if I happen to have some altitude to
waste. Lack of a parachute will cause me to pull the brakes in such a
situation.

Just an example.

B.


Again the equipment did not cause you to take more risk. You chose to
spin down. The parachute didn't cause you to do it.

Just an example.
  #103  
Old October 30th 10, 02:37 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
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Posts: 2,403
Default FLARM.....for good, or evil??

On Oct 29, 2:27*pm, "kirk.stant" wrote:
Darryl, by the way, the USAF (and I assume USN/Marines/Army) is in the
process of installing Mode S (with 1090 ES) in many (if not all) of
it's planes. *C-17s are already using this mode in Europe, as can be
seen on the sites that show Mode S tracks. *And I personally know that
F-15Es are being equipped with Mode S.

What this means is that there is the potential for using the
PowerFLARM 1090 ES detection capability to provide accurate and timely
warning of military aircraft - such as fighters on low level routes,
and in MOAs. *That would be awesome - I'm sure we have all been
surprised by a pair of fighters at some time.

What we may need is for SSA to push the DOD to require all military
aircraft equipped with Mode S transponders to use them at all times
when practicable and explain why.

This capability in itself makes a PowerFLARM a necessity in some
areas!

Cheers,

Kirk


Kirk

Thanks for the info.

BTW if you look at current goodies like the BAE F15 CIT it is a
combined Mode 4 IFF transponder *and* interrogator that also does Mode
S etc. i.e. it can interrogate a Mode C or Mode S transponder in your
glider and paint you on the tactical display and you can also see
their Mode S transponder. All assuming they want to let you see them
of course. See pdf brochure at http://tiny.cc/alo9f its a sexy piece
of technology. I believe that system is going into recent F15
refreshes.

Effectively all the heavy transports and tankers have Mode S, because
the USAF has equipped them with TCAS II systems with require Mode S in
the TCAS equipped aircraft (but will work with Mode C or Mode S in the
threat aircraft) and also probably for compatibility with ATC in
Europe and elsewhere. With Europe mandating 1090ES data out for
aircraft over 5,700kg it makes sense for large military transports to
equip with that even ahead of USA domestic requirements - even if the
military may be technically exempt from requirements. In any serious
threat situation that transponder and especially 1090ES data-out is
going to be turned off, they have "aim here" written all over them. It
will be interesting to see what military transports etc. do with ADS-B
data-in/CDTI to enhance TCAS II displays.

I agree that seeing both transport and fast military traffic via long-
range 1090ES data-in like that in the PowerFLARM could be very useful
- especially in knowing general areas where this traffic is operating.
But if military traffic is a major concern maybe a more effective
thing you can do is to equip with a Mode C or Mode S transponder.
Effectively all heavy military transports and tankers have TCAS II
equivalent that can see your transponder and provide RA instructions
to the crew, military controllers can see your transponder on their
SSR radar and many tactical aircraft equipped with radar/IFF can see
you transponder systems - *if* they have the IFF in the right
interrogator mode, which they might not in all situations. I would
talk to the flight ops or RAPCON etc. at the military facility about
their aircraft equipment and operating proceeds. I'd much rather have
ATC controllers, TCAS II and IFF systems keep us separated than rely
on doing something to avoid them at the last minute.

One of our local traffic concern are heavy transport and busy mixed GA
around Travis AFB and all that traffic effectively has TCAS II and the
local RAPCON sees all out transponder equipped gliders but is blind in
large areas due to radar scatter from windmills and cannot see any
primary glider targets. They provide great service, including flight
following to gliders and are very easy to work with. Oh yes and when
are all those USAF RAPCON getting ADS-B critical services so they can
see UAT equipped traffic (without transponders). Who knows, again my
head hurts too much thinking about that (OK I lied I'm asking around
on that one).

Darryl
 




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