Accident in Namibia, SH Ventus 2cxm

On Friday, February 5, 2016 at 3:30:06 AM UTC+3, Don Johnstone wrote:
At 16:12 04 February 2016, Dan Marotta wrote:
How does that work? Do you push the knob forward to the detent to
deploy the chute and then outboard and forward again to jettison?
What
type of glider is that?

Looks like a Janus. If you are clumsy it is very easy to past the first
detent and all the way forward. The parachute then falls off in it's
container and is very difficult to find :-)

Yup, original Janus. Aerotow on belly hook, all-moving tailplane.

I never used the chute. The airbrakes themselves aren't so great, but add in landing flap and it's as good or better than a Grob. Plus it does a wicked sideslip which, unlike the parachute, is adjustable and can be recovered from and then applied again later as required.

On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 11:02:14 AM UTC-5, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 6:32:26 PM UTC+3, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 3:32:51 AM UTC-5, Surge wrote:
One wonders if the inclusion of a tail parachute would have been a better option on these slippery open class ships with tricky recovery envelopes?

You would need a reliable means to jettison the chute at the right moment.

Like the blue knob low on the right hand cockpit wall in my glider here, you mean?

http://hoult.org/bruce/gliding/sasha/sasha-Images/3.jpg.

First stop deploys the chute. Zig right and all the way forward to jettison it.

I was aware of the chute used for landing on Libelle. So you think a similar chute mechanism could be used during spin/spiral dive recovery.

Standard equipment for flight testing of aircraft:

http://www.airborne-sys.com/pages/vi...covery-systems

On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 6:51:48 PM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
I was aware of the chute used for landing on Libelle. So you think a similar chute mechanism could be used during spin/spiral dive recovery.

On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 6:51:48 PM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 11:02:14 AM UTC-5, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 6:32:26 PM UTC+3, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 3:32:51 AM UTC-5, Surge wrote:
One wonders if the inclusion of a tail parachute would have been a better option on these slippery open class ships with tricky recovery envelopes?

You would need a reliable means to jettison the chute at the right moment.

Like the blue knob low on the right hand cockpit wall in my glider here, you mean?

http://hoult.org/bruce/gliding/sasha/sasha-Images/3.jpg.

First stop deploys the chute. Zig right and all the way forward to jettison it.

I was aware of the chute used for landing on Libelle. So you think a similar chute mechanism could be used during spin/spiral dive recovery.

Shouldn't this move to another thread?
Jim

On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 3:32:51 AM UTC-5, Surge wrote:
One wonders if the inclusion of a tail parachute would have been a better option on these slippery open class ships with tricky recovery envelopes?
Accidental or unreliable deployment issues aside, a drag chute could probably be used to recover from a spin or spiral dive without exceeding Vne.

For example the Nimbus 2 has a terminal velocity in a vertical dive of 200 to 220 km/h (108 to 119 knots) with the tail chute deployed, air brakes and landing gear extended. So assuming one popped the chute within a couple of seconds (giving extra time to extend air brakes and lower the landing gear) the glider would be able to exit the spin/spiral vertically and then gently pull out of the dive without breaking anything in the process.

Is this a crazy idea or feasible?

Another option that would cover a broader range of potential disasters is the installation of a ballistic recovery chute.

Hallo Bert "TW"
Through a convoluted series of links, I stumbled into and read a very good article on "How To Survive Gliding" which at the end credits you.
Wielen danke.
Jim

http://www.tango-whisky.com/How%20to...%20Gliding.pdf


On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 5:51:16 AM UTC-8, Tango Whisky wrote:
Le mercredi 3 février 2016 13:15:10 UTC+1, Justin Craig a écrit*:
Don,

the answer is simple. Don't fly a Nimbus 4 if you do not feel competent to
do so.

Justin,

"feeling competent to" is probably he cause of death #1 amongst glider pilots.

I absolutely agree with you that if one doesn't feel competent to fly an open glass glider, then he shouldn't. But "feeling compentent" might be a different thing than "being competent".
I'm not addressing that to any person in specific. However, having spin experience in a ASK21 or a Discus does not mean that you will survive a fully developed spin in an open glass ship. The momentum of the wing is about 3-5 times larger than that of a 15m glider, and when you do the right inputs to stop the spin, the large momentum means that until the actual rotation is stopped, you are accelerating nose down by 70-80 deg with negative flaps for almost a full turn. So if you wait for the rotation to have stopped before you pull up, there is almost no way that the wings would stay with you.. If you don't wait long enough, you might re-stall the wing. The margin for a successful exit is very slim, while on a 15 m ship it is absolutely easy.

Been there, done that long ago on a 26 m ship, happy to be still alive. After that event, any incipent stall on a ASH25 got my immediate attention.

On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 3:32:51 AM UTC-5, Surge wrote:
One wonders if the inclusion of a tail parachute would have been a better option on these slippery open class ships with tricky recovery envelopes?
Accidental or unreliable deployment issues aside, a drag chute could probably be used to recover from a spin or spiral dive without exceeding Vne.

For example the Nimbus 2 has a terminal velocity in a vertical dive of 200 to 220 km/h (108 to 119 knots) with the tail chute deployed, air brakes and landing gear extended. So assuming one popped the chute within a couple of seconds (giving extra time to extend air brakes and lower the landing gear) the glider would be able to exit the spin/spiral vertically and then gently pull out of the dive without breaking anything in the process.

Is this a crazy idea or feasible?

With the sailplane departing form controlled flight and then accelerating at a high rate I wonder if the pilot would remember to actuate the chute. The critical part happens very quickly and is disorienting. Some would want to try to save it to avoid having to lose the chute.
That said it might be very useful after the wings are pulled off by making the projectile more stable and buying exit time.
FWIW
UH

On 2/6/2016 6:50 PM, JS wrote:
Hallo Bert "TW" Through a convoluted series of links, I stumbled into and
read a very good article on "How To Survive Gliding" which at the end
credits you. Wielen danke. Jim

http://www.tango-whisky.com/How%20to...%20Gliding.pdf

Excellent, thoughtful, thought-provoking link!!! I thought what it touches
upon worthy of its own thread...

As to the article's ending point, here's a public, recent, "There I Wuz..."
soaring-centric article to see if it's possible on RAS to help jump-start such
a discussion.

http://www.flyingmag.com/i-learned-a...t-at-kitt-peak

The experienced glider pilot in me cringed upon reading the Flying magazine
article...but long exposure and participation in recreational soaring had also
long ago led to my concluding the "mental mindset errors" displayed by the
pilot in the Flying magazine article are (excuse the pun) dirt common. *Why*
they are has also long been a real puzzler for me: Lack of exposure? Denial?
("e.g. Only a ignorant idiot would do that - not me!" mindset.) Risk-raising
mental compartmentalization? ???

What do others think?

Bob W.

It would be interesting to know if the root cause is the same. If there are a loss of control, and the root cause is unintended opening of airbrakes in flight.

In France there have been a series of incidents with unintended opening of airbrakes at speeds above 130 km/h.

http://www.volavoile.net/index.php?showtopic=10981

Peter


Den søndag den 31. januar 2016 kl. 11.48.10 UTC+1 skrev :
In Denmark we had a serious incident regarding an Arcus.

The left wing airbrake bell crank ruptured as a consequence of inadequate weld quality. The strength of the welds was insufficient to withstand airbrake bell crank operational loads. The bell crank broke as the glider was in 600ft and had a speed of 108t. The left airbrake extended, The pilot made a brilliant recovery extending the right airbrake and landed the glider 32 seconds later.

You find the full report http://www.hcl.dk/index.php?option=c...order=&lang=da

-Peter