The rudder waggle signal does not work

The towplane rudder waggle signal has done more harm than good. We
have spent at least ten years trying to educate our pilots about this
signal, and we have failed. It is time we got rid of the signal.

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...15X11650&key=1

-Pat

So... What would you have the tow pilot do, release the glider or,
possibly, crash into the trees? Either way, the glider is down.

I've been away from soaring for 9 of the previous 10 years, but it's my
recollection that the rudder wag was not an official signal - only a
suggestion. Maybe it should be made an official signal and tested on BFRs
and check rides.

"Pat Russell" wrote in message
...
The towplane rudder waggle signal has done more harm than good. We
have spent at least ten years trying to educate our pilots about this
signal, and we have failed. It is time we got rid of the signal.

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...15X11650&key=1

-Pat

On Jul 22, 7:55*am, Pat Russell wrote:
The towplane rudder waggle signal has done more harm than good. *We
have spent at least ten years trying to educate our pilots about this
signal, and we have failed. *It is time we got rid of the signal.

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...15X11650&key=1

-Pat

This accident is very tragic, no doubt.

Rudder Waggle,

how do you know it has not done more good than harm? the good that has
come from the rudder waggle signal is not documented in NTSB reports.
Without a signal what is the towpilot to do when the brakes are out on
the glider and the combo is not climbing? release the glider? if that
is the case we might as well keep the signal. If the glider releases
there is no difference but if they remember the signal disaster may be
diverted.

The Rudder Waggle is part of the standard US Soaring signals.

http://www.soaringsafety.org/prevention/signals.html

On Jul 22, 5:55*am, Pat Russell wrote:
The towplane rudder waggle signal has done more harm than good. *We
have spent at least ten years trying to educate our pilots about this
signal, and we have failed. *It is time we got rid of the signal.

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...15X11650&key=1

-Pat

Almost the same thing happened at Minden a few years back, with the
same results......one dead, one seriously injured! Time to ALL get
radios and use them! My best friend collided with a tow plane in the
pattern..................the tow ship didn't have a radio, so he
didn't hear that a glider was trying to land on the same runway at the
same time! Refuse to take a tow with a tug that isn't equipped with a
working radio and do a quick 'com-check', before hooking up to your
tug. We all know what can (will) go wrong: Dead battery, Wrong
frequency, Squelch not set, Radio not on. Klem Bowman died because he
was on the wrong frequency! Don't wait for the FAA or SSA to do
something, they probably will never get the message. It's your life,
act accordingly.
JJ

Did they not have radios? Over the years I have collected many
stories of accidents that almost happened and at some point during the
story I have to add, "Oh, and back then we did not have radios."
Every glider should have a radio and a PPT on the stick!

Boggs


how do you know it has not done more good than harm? the good that has
come from the rudder waggle signal is not documented in NTSB reports.
Without a signal what is the towpilot to do when the brakes are out on
the glider and the combo is not climbing? release the glider? if that
is the case we might as well keep the signal. *If the glider releases
there is no difference but if they remember the signal disaster may be
diverted.

I like radios. However, the one time I really needed it due to a
release failure, the tow pilot did not respond (tow plane from another
club and maybe no radio or different frequency, my bad I should have
checked before taking the tow) to radio calls. Nor did he respond to
my flying out to the side and rocking wings.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinio...lider-warnings

I'm just curious about the nine fatalities mentioned due to
'commercial' and glider collisions. Anyone have a list?

Frank Whiteley

On Jul 22, 8:18*am, GARY BOGGS wrote:
Did they not have radios? *Over the years I have collected many
stories of accidents that almost happened and at some point during the
story I have to add, "Oh, and back then we did not have radios."
Every glider should have a radio and a PPT on the stick!

Boggs









how do you know it has not done more good than harm? the good that has
come from the rudder waggle signal is not documented in NTSB reports.
Without a signal what is the towpilot to do when the brakes are out on
the glider and the combo is not climbing? release the glider? if that
is the case we might as well keep the signal. *If the glider releases
there is no difference but if they remember the signal disaster may be
diverted.

Our regular glider DPE asks me to fan my rudder at 1000 feet AGL
during a checkride to see if the glider pilot candidate understands
what the signal means. We do it at 1000 feet close in to the field so
that if he mistakenly releases, he can make a normal pattern and
land. Our instructors are good at ensuring glider students get to see
the rudder wag and the waveoff during their training.

Radios are primary for communicating between the glider and towplane
but the battery in the glider is subject to petering out so the visual
signals are there as a backup.

What Gary said… Flying a glider without direct tow plane radio
communication is sheer foolishness. With today’s radio/battery
technology, or at minimum a handheld w/ PTT, there is zero excuse for
not having every glider and tow plane equipped with a radio. We would
never allow a glider to launch from our airport without a working
radio and contact with the towplane.

In the case of open dive brakes, the often misinterpreted and
ambiguous rudder waggle becomes replaced by a simple radio call and
the problem goes away with no guessing on either end of the string.
There is little chance the FAA will address the issue, so here’s a
controversial thought… maybe we should encourage insurance companies
to “adjust” their rates based on having a radio on board… that will
get the anti-progress crowd fired up!

Bob

On Jul 22, 8:38*am, Frank Whiteley wrote:
I like radios. *However, the one time I really needed it due to a
release failure, the tow pilot did not respond (tow plane from another
club and maybe no radio or different frequency, my bad I should have
checked before taking the tow) to radio calls. *Nor did he respond to
my flying out to the side and rocking wings.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinio...should-tell-fa...

I'm just curious about the nine fatalities mentioned due to
'commercial' and glider collisions. *Anyone have a list?

Frank Whiteley

On Jul 22, 8:18*am, GARY BOGGS wrote:







Did they not have radios? *Over the years I have collected many
stories of accidents that almost happened and at some point during the
story I have to add, "Oh, and back then we did not have radios."
Every glider should have a radio and a PPT on the stick!

Boggs

how do you know it has not done more good than harm? the good that has
come from the rudder waggle signal is not documented in NTSB reports.
Without a signal what is the towpilot to do when the brakes are out on
the glider and the combo is not climbing? release the glider? if that
is the case we might as well keep the signal. *If the glider releases
there is no difference but if they remember the signal disaster may be
diverted.

IIRC, the rudder wag signal was was introduced because radio proved
unreliable in critical situations! IMHO, if tow pilots can be taught
the right signals, so can glider pilots. Time to tighten up on FAR
Section 61.56 flight reviews.