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How dangerous is soaring?



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 31st 07, 12:57 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
HL Falbaum
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Posts: 133
Default How dangerous is soaring?


Yes, and a 1-34 or two as well.

We should remember that what we do has some risk. The management of that
risk is what we are about. We can manage more of the risk than, say, a
motorcyclist or a full contact karate participant.

When we get the feeling that what we are about to do is a bit dumb, we
should decide if it is worth it or not. We should know where the traps are,
such as a very marginal final glide in the hope that we will make it
(especially if we have done this before and got away with it)

Of all the forms of "evidence" in Medical and Sociologic research, anecdotal
evidence (I know 3 people who were killed in gliders last year) is the
next-to-last in value.

We all know how to behave---If we just do it we minimize the risk.

I think it is worth it!
--
Hartley Falbaum
DG808C "KF" USA

wrote in message
ps.com...
To R...

I recall couple of Nimbus 4's failing in flight. And one LS-6
(fluttered)




On 31 loka, 00:42, " wrote:
Patrick....connecting their death with your flying is not a good
approach. Their death , and I would bet the vast majority, was due to
their failure. I don't recall reading about a death due to mechanical
failure, going back 30 or so years.
So, throw all the crap about living life in the can and ask yourself
if you are a good airman. If you suck, you'll probably kill yourself
and I would suggest you find a simpler hobbie.
If you're good, prove it to the rest of us by not doing something that
got your friends killed.
Perhaps you're just getting old and are looking for a reason to quit.
"Take up slack"
R





  #22  
Old October 31st 07, 01:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
thermalrider
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default How dangerous is soaring?

On Oct 30, 5:56 am, wrote:
When I started soaring on mid 80's, everybody said that soaring is the
safest aviation sport, almost safer than most 'real' sports. You can't
brake your leg while flying Only when you hit the ground

Though on a first year 4 pilots that I knew got killed with glider.
Not a good start. And during the years I have counted over 20
fatalities where I can say they either they were my friends or I knew
them well. Plus all the other fatalities. Almost every week on this
group, we get another sad message informing yet another fatality. And
most of the cases, pilots has been extremely experiensed. We know that
they haven't done any stupid moves, they just lost the control of the
plane on wrong situation or the plane has failed on them. I personally
feel that I am on the edge to quit this sport because of that. I don't
want to see not even one more friend passing away. I want to push that
off my mind.

Soaring is the greatest sport I can imagine. No other sport can give
me the feeling, same view, same fellowship etc etc. But is it worth
it???

PS


If your not living on the edge...your taking up to much space!

Is it worth it? It is the best thing you can do with your clothes on!

Is it safe? You are in command of that and only you.
If you do not respect the forces you are dealing with eventually you
will pay.

Regards
Jim
LS-1f (1J)

  #23  
Old October 31st 07, 01:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ramy
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Posts: 746
Default How dangerous is soaring?

I am having similar thoughts as the original poster going through my
mind everytime I hear about another fatality, especially someone I
knew (2 so far this year!). And I think most repliers are correct, for
most of us, it worth it, but probably not for our families and
friends...
I think the most important is to understand the big risk involved, and
not to be in denial like some posters who believe that as long as you
are not doing stupid mistakes you are safe. No matter how safe you
think you are, the risk is still significantly higher than most normal
activities (such as driving). Of course, there are measures we could
take to significantly reduce the risk, such as only fly in stable air,
far from terrain, never get further than 10:1 glide back to the
airport, etc, but than it wouldn't be much fun wouldn't it?

Ramy


On Oct 30, 10:59 am, "Kloudy via AviationKB.com" u33403@uwe wrote:
wrote:

But is it worth
it???


PS


Yep.

You're gonna die sometime. Why not live while you're breathing?

--
Message posted via AviationKB.comhttp://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/soaring/200710/1



  #24  
Old October 31st 07, 01:56 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
1LK
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default How dangerous is soaring?

At my present age, my risk of dying on any given day is in the range
of 1 in 80. The additional risk I take on when flying is, by
comparison, relatively small. That said, there's little question that
soaring is more risky than generally believed. When the annual number
of deaths relative to the likely number of soaring participants (hours
would be a better denominator, but the data isn't available) is toted
up, soaring appears to rank right up there with motor racing or
serving in Iraq.

As to the fact that many fatalities involve highly experienced pilots,
it's worth considering that we accumulate age while aquiring
experience; one is protective, the other with it's accompanying loss
of neurologic competence is not.

The choice to participate should be made with a clear understanding of
the risks; for me the rewards are sufficient compensation. Your
milage may vary.

Ray Warshaw
1LK


  #25  
Old October 31st 07, 02:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
BT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 995
Default How dangerous is soaring?

How dangerous is rock climbing.. trained people fall every year and die..
How dangerous is hiking.. experienced people are attacked every year and die
How dangerous is.... white water rafting.. canoeing.. sailing.. swimming..
water skiing.. snow skiing (trees jump in front of skiers)..
How dangerous are motorcycles.. the best instructor in the state just got
killed because a car lost control swerving to miss a ladder on the highway
and jumped the median..
How dangerous is racing, dragstrip, professionals.. get hurt or killed every
year..
How dangerous are quads.. people are maimed every year..

Don't give up your life because you think you might get hurt.. train..
study.. PRACTICE..
The most dangerous pilot is one who thinks he can fly himself out of a
jam... but you only see him at the airport once every 3 months.
BT

wrote in message
ups.com...
When I started soaring on mid 80's, everybody said that soaring is the
safest aviation sport, almost safer than most 'real' sports. You can't
brake your leg while flying Only when you hit the ground

Though on a first year 4 pilots that I knew got killed with glider.
Not a good start. And during the years I have counted over 20
fatalities where I can say they either they were my friends or I knew
them well. Plus all the other fatalities. Almost every week on this
group, we get another sad message informing yet another fatality. And
most of the cases, pilots has been extremely experiensed. We know that
they haven't done any stupid moves, they just lost the control of the
plane on wrong situation or the plane has failed on them. I personally
feel that I am on the edge to quit this sport because of that. I don't
want to see not even one more friend passing away. I want to push that
off my mind.

Soaring is the greatest sport I can imagine. No other sport can give
me the feeling, same view, same fellowship etc etc. But is it worth
it???

PS



  #26  
Old October 31st 07, 03:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bullwinkle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 67
Default How dangerous is soaring?

On 10/30/07 7:50 PM, in article , "BT"
wrote:

How dangerous is rock climbing.. trained people fall every year and die..
How dangerous is hiking.. experienced people are attacked every year and die
How dangerous is.... white water rafting.. canoeing.. sailing.. swimming..
water skiing.. snow skiing (trees jump in front of skiers)..
How dangerous are motorcycles.. the best instructor in the state just got
killed because a car lost control swerving to miss a ladder on the highway
and jumped the median..
How dangerous is racing, dragstrip, professionals.. get hurt or killed every
year..
How dangerous are quads.. people are maimed every year..

Don't give up your life because you think you might get hurt.. train..
study.. PRACTICE..
The most dangerous pilot is one who thinks he can fly himself out of a
jam... but you only see him at the airport once every 3 months.
BT

wrote in message
ups.com...
When I started soaring on mid 80's, everybody said that soaring is the
safest aviation sport, almost safer than most 'real' sports. You can't
brake your leg while flying Only when you hit the ground

Though on a first year 4 pilots that I knew got killed with glider.
Not a good start. And during the years I have counted over 20
fatalities where I can say they either they were my friends or I knew
them well. Plus all the other fatalities. Almost every week on this
group, we get another sad message informing yet another fatality. And
most of the cases, pilots has been extremely experiensed. We know that
they haven't done any stupid moves, they just lost the control of the
plane on wrong situation or the plane has failed on them. I personally
feel that I am on the edge to quit this sport because of that. I don't
want to see not even one more friend passing away. I want to push that
off my mind.

Soaring is the greatest sport I can imagine. No other sport can give
me the feeling, same view, same fellowship etc etc. But is it worth
it???

PS



The question is a fair one for someone to ask.

The answers I've seen so far are either not helpful or simply emotional.

Bottom line: here in the US (can't speak to other countries, which may be
better organized) no one can tell you if soaring is more dangerous than any
other activity because we have no rates with which to compare them.

Example, is there one fatality per 100,000 tows, or 100,000 flight hours, or
what? No one knows because there is no denominator (exposure data). We can
tell how many people died, and how many reportable accidents there were
(NTSB database), but absolutely no idea how many tows were made last year,
or how many flying hours were flown in the US last year.

In my own club, we could count tows, but have no system for totaling flight
hours among the private owners.

All that said, do I intend to continue soaring? Of course. There's simply
nothing like it. But I'm making that decision with my heart, not my head.

Bullwinkle

  #27  
Old October 31st 07, 03:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default How dangerous is soaring?

Well Patrick, I think you need to research ( along with HF) why those
aircraft failed. You still have a 98.7% chance of killing yourself ,
1.2% someone will slice thru you , and I'll give you .1% your aircraft
will fail at no fault to yourself. All this of course if anything
happens at all.
I think you should quit and collect stamps because your mind is on
death and not the business at hand.You think some kind of roulette
wheel is spinning with everyones name on it and you're next. With that
kind of confidence, you're a magnet for an accident.
Enjoy your snow, but I bet you'll shake this nonsense.
And as old Gus said, the best way to treat death is to ride off from
it.
R

Anybody want to talk about head-on collisions on a two lane highway?

  #28  
Old October 31st 07, 03:51 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tony Verhulst
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default How dangerous is soaring?

I still like my statement from
http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/GBSC/student/faq.htm

"Most soaring accidents are the result of a series of judgment errors so
to a large extent, soaring is as safe as you make it."

Tony V.
  #29  
Old October 31st 07, 04:42 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Brian[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 399
Default How dangerous is soaring?



How Dangerous is soaring?

Short answer is no one really knows and even if they did it would be
meaningless number.

No one knows because we really don't know how much soaring is done. As
stated in another post we know how many fatal accidents (127 since
1985) But we have no denominator.

It is a meaningless number because even if we knew it, it wouldn't
apply to you. The real question you want to know is "How dangerous
are you?" Soaring more than just about any other sport puts your
individual safety squarely upon your shoulders.

If you really want to know how dangerous Soaring is to you. Go to the
NTSB Site and review those 127 Accidents. How many of those pilots
were doing something you might be doing when they died?

IF you don't fly in the mountains, remove those accidents.
If you don't do Low passes, Remove those Accidents.
IF you don't fly motorgliders, selectively remove those accidents.
IF you don't thermal Low, remove those accidents.
If you don't put yourself in positions where you can't land at
airports, remove those accidents
If you don't put yourself in postions where you don't have good
landing options, remove those accidents.

After doing this every pilot will have a percentage of these Fatal
accidents that could have been them. Maybe they will alter the way the
fly to improve there numbers. The lower the number the Safer Soaring
is for you. If you don't fly obviously this number will be Zero. But
you will still die doing something.

Another way of saying what I said above. Soaring probably is one of
the safest sports around in that if you are hurt it will probably be
your own fault in all but a very few cases.

Brian

  #30  
Old October 31st 07, 05:01 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 60
Default How dangerous is soaring?

On Oct 30, 2:56 am, wrote:
When I started soaring on mid 80's, everybody said that soaring is the
safest aviation sport, almost safer than most 'real' sports. You can't
brake your leg while flying Only when you hit the ground

Though on a first year 4 pilots that I knew got killed with glider.
Not a good start. And during the years I have counted over 20
fatalities where I can say they either they were my friends or I knew
them well. Plus all the other fatalities. Almost every week on this
group, we get another sad message informing yet another fatality. And
most of the cases, pilots has been extremely experiensed. We know that
they haven't done any stupid moves, they just lost the control of the
plane on wrong situation or the plane has failed on them. I personally
feel that I am on the edge to quit this sport because of that. I don't
want to see not even one more friend passing away. I want to push that
off my mind.

Soaring is the greatest sport I can imagine. No other sport can give
me the feeling, same view, same fellowship etc etc. But is it worth
it???

PS


Excuse me here, but what exactly is your f**king point?

If you want to quit, then quit. Nothing that I, or anyone else, can
say is going to change your mind. Really, just post a "For Sale" sign
on your glider and get on with it. BTW, I have permanent knee damage
from playing tenis, but I don't whine about it.

Tom

 




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