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#11
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Aviation Insurance
On Nov 16, 12:48*pm, Ross wrote:
Darkwing wrote: "Mark" wrote in message .... I remember a couple of years ago doing a search of where mandatory Aviation Insurance is required for small plane owners, and it revealed that only 3 American states had mandatory requirements. South Carolina was one, and I don't remember what the other 2 states were. Well, talking to a fellow at the airport the other day, I was telling him that the insurance for a new low wing plane was going to eat me alive. He then told me to look into a Delaware offshore LLC status to buy my plane through. He said I could also circumvent paying taxes too. This Delaware LLC thing looks for real to me. --- Mark If you're an AOPA member call their legal services line, it's free to members. You will get advice, but the real legal services plans are extra. I carried during the 12 years I owned an airplane for that "just in case". I also carried insurance even though I owned it outright from the git go. -- Regards, Ross C-172F 180HP Sold KSWI - Show quoted text - Don't get me wrong. I realize that insurance is the prudent way to go, but a CFI I spoke with said they might not write me in a high speed experimental, and if they do, it's going to be very expensive. --- Mark |
#12
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Aviation Insurance
On Nov 16, 4:25*pm, Mark wrote:
On Nov 16, 12:48*pm, Ross wrote: Darkwing wrote: "Mark" wrote in message .... I remember a couple of years ago doing a search of where mandatory Aviation Insurance is required for small plane owners, and it revealed that only 3 American states had mandatory requirements. South Carolina was one, and I don't remember what the other 2 states were. Well, talking to a fellow at the airport the other day, I was telling him that the insurance for a new low wing plane was going to eat me alive. He then told me to look into a Delaware offshore LLC status to buy my plane through. He said I could also circumvent paying taxes too. This Delaware LLC thing looks for real to me. --- Mark If you're an AOPA member call their legal services line, it's free to members. You will get advice, but the real legal services plans are extra. I carried during the 12 years I owned an airplane for that "just in case".. I also carried insurance even though I owned it outright from the git go. -- Regards, Ross C-172F 180HP Sold KSWI - Show quoted text - Don't get me wrong. I realize that insurance is the prudent way to go, but a CFI I spoke with said they might not write me in a high speed experimental, and if they do, it's going to be very expensive. --- Mark Mark, that gets back to my point. If the history of the experimental is bad you'll be paying a lot of money. I'm not especially worried about hull insurance (if you can an airplane you may be in a position to self insure the hull) but liability is the issue. You want to not be in a position where a bodily harm accident can lead to a suit that may take everything you own. It's not just you being a pilot that puts you at risk if someone thinks your pockets are deep. a lawyer may suggest moving some liquid assets out of reach just as a matter of prudent financial planning. It's possible (thinking about it made my wine come out of my nose!) Bloss may have a reasonable suggestion. Yeah, and I have a bridge that's for sale. |
#13
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Aviation Insurance
On Nov 16, 5:41*pm, a wrote:
On Nov 16, 4:25*pm, Mark wrote: On Nov 16, 12:48*pm, Ross wrote: Darkwing wrote: "Mark" wrote in message ... I remember a couple of years ago doing a search of where mandatory Aviation Insurance is required for small plane owners, and it revealed that only 3 American states had mandatory requirements. South Carolina was one, and I don't remember what the other 2 states were. Well, talking to a fellow at the airport the other day, I was telling him that the insurance for a new low wing plane was going to eat me alive. He then told me to look into a Delaware offshore LLC status to buy my plane through. He said I could also circumvent paying taxes too. This Delaware LLC thing looks for real to me. --- Mark If you're an AOPA member call their legal services line, it's free to members. You will get advice, but the real legal services plans are extra. I carried during the 12 years I owned an airplane for that "just in case". I also carried insurance even though I owned it outright from the git go. -- Regards, Ross C-172F 180HP Sold KSWI - Show quoted text - Don't get me wrong. I realize that insurance is the prudent way to go, but a CFI I spoke with said they might not write me in a high speed experimental, and if they do, it's going to be very expensive. --- Mark Mark, that gets back to my point. *If the history of the experimental is bad you'll be paying a lot of money. I'm not especially worried about hull insurance (if you can buy an airplane you may be in a position to self insure the hull) but liability is the issue. You want to not be in a position where a bodily harm accident can lead to a suit that may take everything you own. It's not just you being a pilot that puts you at risk if someone thinks your pockets are deep. a lawyer may suggest moving some liquid assets out of reach just as a matter of prudent financial planning. Well, see, this goes back to my original point about the Delaware LLC. According to my research most of the fortune 500 companies are based there due to the extreme level of personal liability protection that is offered. All states are legally bound to recognise your legal entity there, and are bound by law to do business with your legal corporation. It just makes sense not to own anything in your own name that can be owned by a corporation, especially one that isn't even bound by courts to turn over records. See...http://www.incnow.com/ So I'm not looking to skirt the law, but to just play by the same rules as the big boys. They're untouchable and we can be too. Insurance is a good idea, but if there is an incident I think it would fall into 2 categories. 1- I break something which is gonna come out of my pocket anyway, given a high deductable, ie, $5000.00. So why not just figure on being self insured? 2- I total the plane and am not around to worry about the pieces. I figure any damage over 50,000 is unsustainable anyway. Other than this, I want the plane insured in the hanger for the typical unattended hazards. I don't mind paying $125,000 one time for something i can put my hands on, as opposed to paying $300 - $500 a month for years for something I may never need, or like I said, being told that I cannot fly my plane because they don't want me to. I called a couple of companies today, but it was a "leave a message and we'll call you back" deal. I figured if they want my premium, they should make themselves available for my call. --- Mark |
#14
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Aviation Insurance
On Nov 16, 7:19*pm, Mark wrote:
On Nov 16, 5:41*pm, a wrote: On Nov 16, 4:25*pm, Mark wrote: On Nov 16, 12:48*pm, Ross wrote: Darkwing wrote: "Mark" wrote in message ... I remember a couple of years ago doing a search of where mandatory Aviation Insurance is required for small plane owners, and it revealed that only 3 American states had mandatory requirements. South Carolina was one, and I don't remember what the other 2 states were. Well, talking to a fellow at the airport the other day, I was telling him that the insurance for a new low wing plane was going to eat me alive. He then told me to look into a Delaware offshore LLC status to buy my plane through. He said I could also circumvent paying taxes too. This Delaware LLC thing looks for real to me. --- Mark If you're an AOPA member call their legal services line, it's free to members. You will get advice, but the real legal services plans are extra. I carried during the 12 years I owned an airplane for that "just in case". I also carried insurance even though I owned it outright from the git go. -- Regards, Ross C-172F 180HP Sold KSWI - Show quoted text - Don't get me wrong. I realize that insurance is the prudent way to go, but a CFI I spoke with said they might not write me in a high speed experimental, and if they do, it's going to be very expensive. --- Mark Mark, that gets back to my point. *If the history of the experimental is bad you'll be paying a lot of money. I'm not especially worried about hull insurance (if you can buy an airplane you may be in a position to self insure the hull) but liability is the issue. You want to not be in a position where a bodily harm accident can lead to a suit that may take everything you own. It's not just you being a pilot that puts you at risk if someone thinks your pockets are deep. a lawyer may suggest moving some liquid assets out of reach just as a matter of prudent financial planning. Well, see, this goes back to my original point about the Delaware LLC. According to my research most of the fortune 500 companies are based there due to the extreme level of personal liability protection that is offered. All states are legally bound to recognise your legal entity there, and are bound by law to do business with your legal corporation. It just makes sense not to own anything in your own name that can be owned by a corporation, especially one that isn't even bound by courts to turn over records. See...http://www.incnow.com/ So I'm not looking to skirt the law, but to just play by the same rules as the big boys. They're untouchable and we can be too. Insurance is a good idea, but if there is an incident I think it would fall into 2 categories. 1- I break something which is gonna come out of my pocket * *anyway, given a high deductable, ie, $5000.00. So why not * *just figure on being self insured? 2- I total the plane and am not around to worry about the pieces. * * I figure any damage over 50,000 is unsustainable anyway. Other than this, I want the plane insured in the hanger for the typical unattended hazards. I don't mind paying $125,000 one time for something i can put my hands on, as opposed to paying $300 - $500 a month for years for something I may never need, or like I said, being told that I cannot fly my plane because they don't want me to. I called a couple of companies today, but it was a "leave a message and we'll call you back" deal. I figured if they want my premium, they should make themselves available for my call. --- Mark I'd be surprised, Mark, if having the airplane's LLC is located in DE that it will protect you individually should you hurt someone in CT. What I worry about least is the hull insurance. That as you correctly point out is something you may be able to comfortably self insure. Your other assets would be fair game though -- your lawyer can tell you about that. I have no argument with the notion of using every tool available. We concluded a sizable liability umbrella policy, including a rider that includes GA related issues, is right for us, but I fully agree that one size does not fit all. My point was simply for you do decide which risks were to be self insured, and which wanted other protection. What airplane are you considering? |
#15
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Aviation Insurance
On Nov 16, 8:05*pm, a wrote:
What airplane are you considering? - Show quoted text - I lean towards the lancairs, glasairs, and Van RV's, and there are plenty to be picked up, but in the new category, and this is really the more sensible choice, there are 2 Light Sport Planes which are both beautiful and economical, those being, 1) Arion Lightning and 2) Sportcruiser. I used to want the Burt Rutan canard styles, but over a period of time, I began to see a conventional design as the better idea. Also, being 6'3", I have to make sure I can fit in my choice. I found a nice Lancair the other day that they said anyone over 5'10, don't bother. --- Mark |
#16
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Aviation Insurance
On Nov 16, 9:01*pm, Mark wrote:
On Nov 16, 8:05*pm, a wrote: What airplane are you considering? - Show quoted text - I lean towards the lancairs, glasairs, and Van RV's, and there are plenty to be picked up, but in the new category, and this is really the more sensible choice, there are 2 Light Sport Planes which are both beautiful and economical, those being, 1) Arion Lightning and 2) Sportcruiser. I used to want the Burt Rutan canard styles, but over a period of time, I began to see a conventional design as the better idea. Also, being 6'3", I have to make sure I can fit in my choice. I found a nice Lancair the other day that they said anyone over 5'10, don't bother. --- Mark I am partial to conventional airplanes and bore holes in the sky in a Mooney 201 (M20J). At 6'1" I can move the seat aft so far I have trouble reaching the peddles, but then there's no leg room for the person behind me. The newer Mooneys get pulled around with IO 540s, but mine, with a 360, will sip 9 gallons an hour and give 150 knots, that works for my flight profiles. I expect the ones you're looking at have both a smaller appetite and greater speed. Good luck with your choice -- I'm happy with mine but certainly agree one size (or type or manufacturer) does not fit all. |
#17
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Aviation Insurance
On Nov 16, 10:16*pm, a wrote:
On Nov 16, 9:01*pm, Mark wrote: On Nov 16, 8:05*pm, a wrote: What airplane are you considering? - Show quoted text - I lean towards the lancairs, glasairs, and Van RV's, and there are plenty to be picked up, but in the new category, and this is really the more sensible choice, there are 2 Light Sport Planes which are both beautiful and economical, those being, 1) Arion Lightning and 2) Sportcruiser. I used to want the Burt Rutan canard styles, but over a period of time, I began to see a conventional design as the better idea. Also, being 6'3", I have to make sure I can fit in my choice. I found a nice Lancair the other day that they said anyone over 5'10, don't bother. --- Mark I am partial to conventional airplanes and bore holes in the sky in a Mooney 201 (M20J). At 6'1" I can move the seat aft so far I have trouble reaching the peddles, but then there's no leg room for the person behind me. The newer Mooneys get pulled around with IO 540s, but mine, with a 360, will sip 9 gallons an hour and give 150 knots, that works for my flight profiles. I expect the ones you're looking at have both a smaller appetite and greater speed. Yeah, Mooneys are nice, but my target locations are in the 500 mile range and I would like to do round trips in one day if necessary. Good luck with your choice -- I'm happy with mine but certainly agree one size (or type or manufacturer) does not fit all. Thanks, nice talking with you. --- Mark |
#18
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Aviation Insurance
On Nov 18, 8:29*pm, Mark wrote:
On Nov 16, 10:16*pm, a wrote: On Nov 16, 9:01*pm, Mark wrote: On Nov 16, 8:05*pm, a wrote: What airplane are you considering? - Show quoted text - I lean towards the lancairs, glasairs, and Van RV's, and there are plenty to be picked up, but in the new category, and this is really the more sensible choice, there are 2 Light Sport Planes which are both beautiful and economical, those being, 1) Arion Lightning and 2) Sportcruiser. I used to want the Burt Rutan canard styles, but over a period of time, I began to see a conventional design as the better idea. Also, being 6'3", I have to make sure I can fit in my choice. I found a nice Lancair the other day that they said anyone over 5'10, don't bother. --- Mark I am partial to conventional airplanes and bore holes in the sky in a Mooney 201 (M20J). At 6'1" I can move the seat aft so far I have trouble reaching the peddles, but then there's no leg room for the person behind me. The newer Mooneys get pulled around with IO 540s, but mine, with a 360, will sip 9 gallons an hour and give 150 knots, that works for my flight profiles. I expect the ones you're looking at have both a smaller appetite and greater speed. Yeah, Mooneys are nice, but my target locations are in the 500 mile range and I would like to do round trips in one day if necessary. * Good luck with your choice -- I'm happy with mine but certainly agree one size (or type or manufacturer) does not fit all. Thanks, nice talking with you. --- Mark 3 plus hours on average each way would make it a long day in an M20. Did it often when younger, but now those trips would include a RON if I wanted to get anything meaningful done at the remote location. The good news about the RON is a meeting can end with dinner and a drink or two. I too often had to decline those offers in the past, but not now. It turns out from a practical point of view that taking off around 8 the following morning will allow me to slay dragons back at the plant from noon onward. That's much better for me than arriving home late at night and getting to work mid morning the following day. Again, I fully agree one size does not fit all (and this routine is also subject to change, but it's unlikely I'll be delegating these trips to someone else anytime soon!). |
#19
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Aviation Insurance
On Nov 19, 9:43*am, a wrote:
On Nov 18, 8:29*pm, Mark wrote: On Nov 16, 10:16*pm, a wrote: On Nov 16, 9:01*pm, Mark wrote: On Nov 16, 8:05*pm, a wrote: What airplane are you considering? - Show quoted text - I lean towards the lancairs, glasairs, and Van RV's, and there are plenty to be picked up, but in the new category, and this is really the more sensible choice, there are 2 Light Sport Planes which are both beautiful and economical, those being, 1) Arion Lightning and 2) Sportcruiser. I used to want the Burt Rutan canard styles, but over a period of time, I began to see a conventional design as the better idea. Also, being 6'3", I have to make sure I can fit in my choice. I found a nice Lancair the other day that they said anyone over 5'10, don't bother. --- Mark I am partial to conventional airplanes and bore holes in the sky in a Mooney 201 (M20J). At 6'1" I can move the seat aft so far I have trouble reaching the peddles, but then there's no leg room for the person behind me. The newer Mooneys get pulled around with IO 540s, but mine, with a 360, will sip 9 gallons an hour and give 150 knots, that works for my flight profiles. I expect the ones you're looking at have both a smaller appetite and greater speed. Yeah, Mooneys are nice, but my target locations are in the 500 mile range and I would like to do round trips in one day if necessary. * Good luck with your choice -- I'm happy with mine but certainly agree one size (or type or manufacturer) does not fit all. Thanks, nice talking with you. --- Mark 3 plus hours on average each way would make it a long day in an M20. Did it often when younger, but now those trips would include a RON if I wanted to get anything meaningful done at the remote location. The good news about the RON is a meeting can end with dinner and a drink or two. I too often had to decline those offers in the past, but not now. It turns out from a practical point of view that taking off around 8 the following morning will allow me to slay dragons back at the plant from noon onward. *That's much better for me than arriving home late at night and getting to work mid morning the following day. Again, I fully agree one size does not fit all (and this routine is also subject to change, but it's unlikely I'll be delegating these trips to someone else anytime soon!).- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I know what you're saying about the fatigue factor. Actually, my longer trips would be around 415 miles, and at 200kts I'm looking at 1.8 hours one way. Not only that, these are all pleasure trips and I can still get a RON or not depending on preference. In other words, I want more *capability* than I need. In fact, here's a nice example of a lovely family doing exactly what I'm talking about. They are running in the 220's groundspeed, and his best was 253kts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEHZtafoGGs Definitely do-able in under 2 hrs. --- Mark |
#20
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Aviation Insurance
On Nov 19, 1:18*pm, Mark wrote:
On Nov 19, 9:43*am, a wrote: On Nov 18, 8:29*pm, Mark wrote: On Nov 16, 10:16*pm, a wrote: On Nov 16, 9:01*pm, Mark wrote: On Nov 16, 8:05*pm, a wrote: What airplane are you considering? - Show quoted text - I lean towards the lancairs, glasairs, and Van RV's, and there are plenty to be picked up, but in the new category, and this is really the more sensible choice, there are 2 Light Sport Planes which are both beautiful and economical, those being, 1) Arion Lightning and 2) Sportcruiser. I used to want the Burt Rutan canard styles, but over a period of time, I began to see a conventional design as the better idea. Also, being 6'3", I have to make sure I can fit in my choice. I found a nice Lancair the other day that they said anyone over 5'10, don't bother. --- Mark I am partial to conventional airplanes and bore holes in the sky in a Mooney 201 (M20J). At 6'1" I can move the seat aft so far I have trouble reaching the peddles, but then there's no leg room for the person behind me. The newer Mooneys get pulled around with IO 540s, but mine, with a 360, will sip 9 gallons an hour and give 150 knots, that works for my flight profiles. I expect the ones you're looking at have both a smaller appetite and greater speed. Yeah, Mooneys are nice, but my target locations are in the 500 mile range and I would like to do round trips in one day if necessary. * Good luck with your choice -- I'm happy with mine but certainly agree one size (or type or manufacturer) does not fit all. Thanks, nice talking with you. --- Mark 3 plus hours on average each way would make it a long day in an M20. Did it often when younger, but now those trips would include a RON if I wanted to get anything meaningful done at the remote location. The good news about the RON is a meeting can end with dinner and a drink or two. I too often had to decline those offers in the past, but not now. It turns out from a practical point of view that taking off around 8 the following morning will allow me to slay dragons back at the plant from noon onward. *That's much better for me than arriving home late at night and getting to work mid morning the following day. Again, I fully agree one size does not fit all (and this routine is also subject to change, but it's unlikely I'll be delegating these trips to someone else anytime soon!).- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I know what you're saying about the fatigue factor. Actually, my longer trips would be around 415 miles, and at 200kts I'm looking at 1.8 hours one way. Not only that, these are all pleasure trips and I can still get a RON or not depending on preference. In other words, I want more *capability* than I need. *In fact, here's a nice example of a lovely family doing exactly what I'm talking about. They are running in the 220's groundspeed, and his best was 253kts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEHZtafoGGs Definitely do-able in under 2 hrs. --- Mark I agree, if I was buying a new airplane I'd look at other options (my BoD has been recommending something with two engines for a long time) but there are better places to spend that kind of money. For now, the cost for incremental change in speed and the safety of engine redundancy is too high, and I'm very comfortable flying the 201. Life is good, and that part of my life isn't broken, no need to fix it. The people at the places I go know there's a 5 or 10% chance something will make me abort the trip, that number would be only marginally lower with a different airplane. The difference is, as you've stated, the overt reason for your trips would be pleasure -- for mine, the reason is business, the pleasure of flying is a side effect. But each summer, it seems, I have to visit customers or potential customers all over the place, usually about 400 miles apart, without convenient airline services. Why, every few years those trips reach the west coast. Tough life, but someone etc. I'd like to find some customers well out on the Bahamas, but so far no luck. Good luck on your quest. |
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