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Affect of Alcohol (Beer) on Soaring and Soaring Racing



 
 
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  #22  
Old February 20th 19, 11:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Default Affect of Alcohol (Beer) on Soaring and Soaring Racing

Sex, drugs, rock and roll, and then let's go fly! :-D

Seriously, a lot of this trends towards excessive drinking, not a beer
after flying.Â* And most of us are not world class contest fliers.Â*
Anyone who wants to abstain from alcohol has my blessing. Anyone who
wants to take a single end of day beer from me can go pound sand (or
something more colorful).

On 2/20/2019 7:14 AM, danlj wrote:
Well, ask a serious question on r.a.s., and see whether you get any serious answers.... We could start keeping score.

Seriously, when researching material in 2018 for my SSA talk, "29 Ways to Make Yourself Stupid," I discovered two interesting factoids:

1: Most studies of alcohol-related performance study things like, Can he still walk and chew gum after 12 beers?
But I found one study of the effect on alcohol on *complex cognitive performance.* This study found that a single ounce of alcohol produced a measurable loss.
Frankly, most flying does not entail complex cognitive skill any more than does riding a bicycle -- but contest flying in primarily cognitive, the flying skill a given,.

2: Late effects of alcohol. I found only 2 studies asking how long the impairment lasts after drinking.
This is important because alcohol is metabolized to aldehyde (think:formaldehyde). Alcohol has a half-life of about 2 hours; aldehyde has a half-live of about 6 hours.
Both studies brought subjects' blood alcohol levels to 0.10mg% (the legal limit in many places), then retested their performance repeatedly over time. In both studies, impaired performance was still significant at the end of the observation period: 24 hours in one and 48 hours in the other.

My take from this is that if you get drunk, you are still impaired on Day 3, and we have *no* data showing when you may actually return to normal.

I am sure that many competitors have done their own experiments, and would explain why elite athletes often defer alcohol to the end of the season or campaign.

With activities that produce anxiety, alcohol may improve performance by decreasing anxiety. But there are safer drugs for that (none of which are recommended by aviation medical experts).

On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 2:39:11 PM UTC-6, wrote:
It actually was a serious question - I just watched Free Solo - a guy focused on a extremely technical sport. Doesn't drink.

I also have been around several people with Olympic medals - it varies but most only drink at the very end of the competition season - for the reasons of better rest/recovery, focus and no desire to relax.

I have seen a few Kawa interviews and heard him say "If I see a competitor go for a beer, I know I can beat them" - I believe he thought it was more physiological.


--
Dan, 5J
  #23  
Old February 20th 19, 11:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Affect of Alcohol (Beer) on Soaring and Soaring Racing

Suddenly, Gary Ittner's generosity in sharing his special brews with pilots at the nationals over the years makes a lot more sense. Has anyone actually witnessed P7 having one himself?

Chip Bearden
  #24  
Old February 21st 19, 01:52 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Affect of Alcohol (Beer) on Soaring and Soaring Racing

50+ years ago I was flying almost every day in a private pilot course at the University of Illinois. At my best I could chirp - chirp every landing in the Champion 7FC "Tri-Champ". After 4 beers the night before I could no longer do so though other performance measures seemed ok. I continued the study for 3, 2, 1 beers. Same result. I then resolved not to fly any aircraft for at least 24 hours after drinking any alcohol. Over the years this has seriously cut into my drinking.
Paul Paulikas
  #25  
Old February 21st 19, 03:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Richard Pfiffner[_2_]
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Default Affect of Alcohol (Beer) on Soaring and Soaring Racing

On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 2:34:05 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Suddenly, Gary Ittner's generosity in sharing his special brews with pilots at the nationals over the years makes a lot more sense. Has anyone actually witnessed P7 having one himself?

Chip Bearden


Yes he makes good beer.

Richard
  #26  
Old February 21st 19, 04:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Affect of Alcohol (Beer) on Soaring and Soaring Racing

I am surprised that this subject is even being debated. We have hundreds, if not thousands of years of analyses of consuming alcohol and resulting performance. It isn't a mystery- you don't do well on even simple tasks when drunk. ("Touch your nose. Now stand on one foot. Now put your hands behind your back and let's go downtown.")

A beer or two or three with friends after flying is a longstanding tradition in the aviation and soaring world. (I consider beer to be a reward and celebration with friends after a joyful day swooshing around the sky. We refer to it as 'Aircrew Debriefing Fluid.')

I know I don't fly well the day after drinking too much and so I don't fly with a hangover. If we get into a weather pattern at Moriarty that promises several days of great conditions, I limit my consumption to a level that is commensurate with the time necessary to metabolize the alcohol consumed prior to engaging in aviation related tasks. If I fail to limit the consumption, I just don't fly the next day and kick myself for screwing up.

Judgment is a personal choice, and I certainly respect the attitude of Sebastian Kawa, for obvious reasons. He is simply the best in the world. But I also appreciate the many competition pilots who can kick back and socialize with friends after a long, challenging contest flight. Perhaps they have a beer or two, a couple of glasses of wine, some laughter and camaraderie. It is always a personal choice.

Will you do better in a soaring contest if you completely abstain from consuming alcohol? Maybe, but you can also learn a lot about your competition by hanging out with them after flying.

Remember that being Number One in your particular field shouldn't come by being a judgmental, critical outsider. We do this because it is fun. I don't see too many trophies sponsored by breweries, although I wish I had been around for the Smirnoff Sailplane Derby
  #27  
Old February 21st 19, 01:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Affect of Alcohol (Beer) on Soaring and Soaring Racing

On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 9:05:07 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I know Sebastian Kawa and a few others never touch alcohol. Some racing pilots stay away around competitions. Others have a beer waiting on ice when they land.

Is it just a high performance athlete focusing thing - or is there more to it. I did a search and couldn't fined any discussions.


WH


I can tell you for sure that completely abstaining from alcohol for the last 20 some years has really screwed up my dancing. So there are pro's and con's.
GB
  #28  
Old February 21st 19, 02:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Affect of Alcohol (Beer) on Soaring and Soaring Racing

On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 10:05:08 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I am surprised that this subject is even being debated. We have hundreds, if not thousands of years of analyses of consuming alcohol and resulting performance. It isn't a mystery- you don't do well on even simple tasks when drunk. ("Touch your nose. Now stand on one foot. Now put your hands behind your back and let's go downtown.")

A beer or two or three with friends after flying is a longstanding tradition in the aviation and soaring world. (I consider beer to be a reward and celebration with friends after a joyful day swooshing around the sky. We refer to it as 'Aircrew Debriefing Fluid.')

I know I don't fly well the day after drinking too much and so I don't fly with a hangover. If we get into a weather pattern at Moriarty that promises several days of great conditions, I limit my consumption to a level that is commensurate with the time necessary to metabolize the alcohol consumed prior to engaging in aviation related tasks. If I fail to limit the consumption, I just don't fly the next day and kick myself for screwing up.

Judgment is a personal choice, and I certainly respect the attitude of Sebastian Kawa, for obvious reasons. He is simply the best in the world. But I also appreciate the many competition pilots who can kick back and socialize with friends after a long, challenging contest flight. Perhaps they have a beer or two, a couple of glasses of wine, some laughter and camaraderie. It is always a personal choice.

Will you do better in a soaring contest if you completely abstain from consuming alcohol? Maybe, but you can also learn a lot about your competition by hanging out with them after flying.

Remember that being Number One in your particular field shouldn't come by being a judgmental, critical outsider. We do this because it is fun. I don't see too many trophies sponsored by breweries, although I wish I had been around for the Smirnoff Sailplane Derby


The topic wasn't meant to be a "Debate" - I know RAS loves debates

Since I started it - it was meant to help "me" come up with a bit better "personal" decisions/check lists. sort of like:

I want to do 1000k - make sure i have 8 hours of sleep the 4 nights before - don't drink - call off the task if work is over stress limits........

Before a Contest - don't drink 4 days before or during the contest - sleep in a proper bed - get to sleep before 10 pm - eat only my own cooking.

you get the idea..... RAS has many experience pilots - it can be a place to get diverse opinion and something real data - also a little humor thrown in

Every body reacts to different stress with uniqueness. It in nice to hear how others approach an issue...... it's not a debate, just because you ask a question

WH
  #30  
Old February 21st 19, 05:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Affect of Alcohol (Beer) on Soaring and Soaring Racing

On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 11:00:26 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:


There is NO DEBATE about that LOL - my son works for a brewery, so the plan was NEVER to give up Beer - it is a basic food group.

Spring is getting closer every day!

WH
 




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